This is VERY good David. Someone should get the lawyers AND the management of LL to read this.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:22:36AM -0400, David M Chess wrote: > > I want to weigh in very briefly here, because I was voiciferously arguing with > Morgaine in AWG the other night, but having considered the TPV policy as a > whole (and not just believed what it says about itself), I think there is more > of a problem here than I originally thought. > > In theory, the GPLv2 is all and only about copying, distribution, and > modification; whereas the TPV policy ought to be all and only about use. So > the two *shouldn't* conflict. > > Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the TPV policy's wording leaves > something to be desired here and there. > > At the very top, the TPV policy says rather emphatically: > > "This Policy does not place any restriction on modification or use of our > viewer source code that we make available under the GPL. Rather, the Policy > sets out requirements for connecting to our Second Life service using a > Third-Party Viewer, regardless of the viewer source code used, and for > participating in our Viewer Directory." > > and relatedly: > > "If you do not agree, you are not allowed to use Second Life through a > Third-Party Viewer." > > On the other hand, down below in the Tricky Bits, it says stuff like: > > "If you are a user or Developer of Third-Party Viewers, you agree to the > following:" > > "If you are a Developer of Third-Party Viewers, you represent and warrant > that:" > > "All use and distribution of Third-Party Viewers must comply with Linden Lab > policies and applicable law and must not:" > > It's hard to interpret something that starts "All use and distribution" as not > placing "any restriction on modification or use of our viewer source code"; > similarly for "If you are a Developer of Third-Party Viewers". If I get the > viewer source code, make a modified viewer, never use it to connect to SL at > all, but distribute it freely for whatever use anyone might want to make of > it, > then the TPV policy says both that it is not placing any restriction on that, > and that I must represent and warrant certain things, and must comply with > various policies and laws and terms. Can't have it both ways! > > The language of the TPV policy seems to me to rather clearly contradict > itself; > up front it claims that what it does is set out requirements for connecting to > SL via any third-party viewer, but in the body it sets out requirements on > anyone who *develops* software that someone else might use to connect to SL. > This should imho be fixed. > > It seems to me that the main things the Lab wants to accomplish here are: > > • To make it clear that by providing viewer source code LL are not assuming > legal liability for every use someone might make of it (unfortunately > rather than just saying that, the current wording tries to explicitly tie > that liability to various specific parties, who may or may not in fact be > liable, and who are in general just as reluctant as LL is to take on > responsibility for things they don't in fact control!), > • To make it clear that if either a developer or a user of a nonstandard > viewer misbehaves (with a non-exhaustive list of sample misbehaviors > provided), they may take any measure they deem appropriate, including > banning, account termination, viewer blocking, and so on, to counter that > misbehavior, and the target of those measures can't sue them (the ToS sort > of already says they can do whatever they want in this area for any reason > or no reason; this is presumably just extra caution), > • And to lay out what their expectations and standards are for viewers that > they are happy about having connect to the Grid (which is, imho, the most > useful part of the thing, which has unfortunately been rather obscured by > the legalese). > > > Note that I'm not by any means saying that if someone writes an evil viewer > that contains obfuscated code that steals SL passwords, or that contains > griefing or sim-crashing code, but never themselves uses it to connect to SL, > that they shouldn't be held responsible. Certainly they should. And that may > be all that the current TPV wording is trying to say. But the actual wording > is much broader than that, and viewer developers are, imho quite > understandably, not pleased. Essentially the wording says "we take no > responsibility for the code that we make available, but if someone takes that > code and changes a single line, they take full responsibility for the result". > That is, the current wording seems to require viewer developers to take on > responsibilities for their code that the Lab itself explicitly doesn't take on > for theirs. > > I suggested somewhere that the bit about how the developer of a third-party > viewer is responsible for anything bad that might ever happen anywhere in the > world was typical lawyer over-reaching. Someone that I suspect is an actual > lawyer replied that no lawyer would ever voluntarily sign off on wording that > was that silly, and it must have been some ignorant business manager insisting > on it. Whichever explanation is true :) it would be nice if this were fixed, > so that the TPV policy really did talk only about the key things I've tried to > summarize in those three bullets there, and didn't wander off into the weeds > demanding legal representations and warrantees from every developer of a piece > of software that someone else might use to connect to the grid. > > Just in case it's helpful (and to apologize to Morgaine :) ), > Dave Chess / Dale Innis > _______________________________________________ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- Carlo Wood <ca...@alinoe.com> _______________________________________________ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
