On 9/22/2010 5:02 AM, Cedric Blancher wrote:
On 22 September 2010 10:22, Gary Driggs<gdri...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 22, 2010, at 12:57 AM, Knut Reinert wrote:
Given the ongoing BSD'tification of Illumos userland utilities I'd say
it may be time to fork. Solaris and it's descendants should stay with
it's SystemV heritage and POSIX.
How do BSD or System V have anything to do with POSIX or Single UNIX Specification
compliance? Answer: very little as they're only userland differences. BSD systems
have received SUS certifications& several non-Unix operating systems,
including Windows, are POSIX compliant.
This is news for me. Could you point me to the opengroup page which
lists FreeBSD, NetBSD or any other BSD operating system except Apple
OS X as SUS certified? They claim to support SUS but they are not
certified. Apple OS X is certified but key parts and patches for the
FreeBSD utilities are usually released long after the OS X patch set
is released, usually a year later. Whatever FreeBSD has and Illumos
copied is likely not going to pass a SUS certification process.
Based on what evidence? SUS is a specification, and anyone can write to
the specification. If what you are concerned with is *certification*,
well, that's a whole different ball of wax. <sarcasm> Especially since
certifications mean soooo much, technically. </sarcasm>
IllumOS *is* using the (primarily Free) *BSD codebase to supply some
critical binaries for which Oracle has no released code for. However,
they're not just copying the *BSD one over into the codebase. I'm at
least seeing serious effort as to maintaining POSIX/SUS compliance,
which includes fixing the imported *BSD codebase to behave properly.
That is, they're replicating behavior of the Solaris closed-source
binary, starting with a free codebase.
About the only thing I think that isn't going to be replicated is the
old 'dmake', as there's no usable source, it's not part of the POSIX/et
al setup, and IllumOS needs a new parallel make in any case.
In any case, IllumOS is very much *NOT* doing what is claimed here. If
anything, I expect that it will (unfortunately) expand on the inclusion
of discrete groups of utils in various places, each conforming to a
different standard. In case anyone missed it, we're (Solaris) is now up to:
/usr/bin
/usr/xpg4
/usr/dt
/usr/ccs
/usr/ucb
/usr/gnu
/usr/sfw
Not to mention that the "standard" Solaris tools available in /usr/bin
AREN'T certified to the standard. Those are in /usr/xpg4.
Also, can you see the irony in your complaint? Have you ever heard of SunOS
versions 1.0 to 4.1.4? :)
Oh, this is funny.
I think I have bad, very bad news for you:
SunOS 4.* was discontinued.
By SUN.
Ten years ago.
It was replaced by something called SOLARIS, which has SunOS only in
it's uname output for backwards compatibility.
SOLARIS is based on UNIX System V and had only very limited backwards
compatibility for SunOS 4.* applications, and only for SPARC. AFAIK
SunOS 4.* compatibility has been discontinued or is going to be
discontinued very soon, IMO likely before Solaris 11 ships or shortly
after that.
Ced
No, you missed his irony - he was remarking that SunOS started out as a
*BSD-derived OS, then was changed (amidst a huge howl from the
user-base) to a SysV base, and IllumOS is now re-importing code from
it's original base.
In any case, Solaris 2.x never was a "pure" SysV system - it kept plenty
of the SunOS quirks around. I'm sure someone like Alan Coopersmith can
be more enlightening on this topic. (and, if we're fnally discontinuing
SunOS 4 compatibility mode, well, that's not a bad record of 20 YEARS).
What matters is specification-compliance, NOT where the codebase comes
from (what, is code something like Aunt Harriet's hierloom candlestick
that you can't ever loose?) To date, I see no evidence that IllumOS is
trying NOT to continue with POSIX/et al compliance.
In fact, if you had happened to be at any one of the various OpenSolaris
UG meetings, Garret and company have been very explicit in stating the
fact that a major goal of IllumOS is to continue with standards
compliance. Keeping IllumOS strictly standards-compliant is one big way
to differentiate it from Linux and the *BSDs.
So, I'm calling this whole thread FUD.
--
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop: usca22-123
Phone: x17195
Santa Clara, CA
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