Actually I didn't want to reply to these jokes, but as April 1st is already over, I am probably forced to correct a few of your phantasies, for the "newcomers" as you call me, or at least for the records. Therefore I re-subscribed for this clarification. Maybe for submitting diffs? No, bad luck. The social structures of this vibrant OI community are neither vibrant nor community-like.
>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 02. April 2015 um 11:39 Uhr >Von: "Apostolos Syropoulos" <asyropou...@yahoo.com> >An: "Martin Bochnig" <m...@gmx.com>, "Discussion List for OpenIndiana" ><openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> >Betreff: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE __/__ Aw: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] UPDATE: New FF37 >pkg uploaded, Flash Plugins 9/10/11.x ... do work now inside a gcc compiled >Firefox now! >> >> Experiences like this are in fact the reason, why I no longer upload the >> diffs >> since 2009 (as I did do from April 2006 on). >> I wanted to, but every time somebody like you bashes me. On Illumos-discuss >> it >> was the same, only worse. >> > >I am not really sure about this. Is there anything that you _are_ sure of then? >> You blame me for uploading some bins for free, that any person can download >> free >> of charge, and that's what continues to generate more than a Terabyte of >> downloads per year from opensxce.org (Al Hopper pays for all that since >> 2006!). >> > > >No one is blamig you. I just pointed out that we need source for an Open Source >project. If you cannot or do not want to release your patches please do not >post nonsene! When Alexander announced his good work at first I wanted, then I wasn't really ready anymore and postponed it until the new release of OpenSXCE x86-x64 would be finished and released, after your "contribution" however I am now sure that I don't want anymore. What's the part that you find tough to understand though? And more so, what do you mean by "if you cannot"? >> >> I uploaded not my diffs, because of you and folks like you. > >That's bullshit and everyone understands why! If you are capable of making such harsh allegations, can you also explain what precisely you mean by them????? That I don't know how to create and submit a diff or what? > >> But the src itself was provided by Illumos, Sun/Oracle and is easily >> available. >> If you are not capable of building it, is it also my fault????? >> > >Again you are taking nonsense. Please stop! To put it in Garret D'Amore's words from 2013, "didn't you take your meds today"? The problem with you is, well, a lot. I don't want to spend hours teaching you what OpenSolaris once was, what it now is, and where you can find which code under what terms. Somebody needs to explain you these things, as it appears from your wise statements. I am talking nonsense? Really? What's this then: Until a short while ago, all open sources once associated with good old opensolaris.org could still be downloaded as in the past from dlc.sun.com/osol . That is: Not only on aka OS/Net (now Illumos versus Oracle internal OS/Net), but all public consolidations, if that tells you anything. Now dlc.sun.com still has a dns entry and is still pointed to an IP address that is alive, but from a quick look it appears, the osol subdirectory with all of its contents has gone. Of course nothing is lost: I created a full weget copy of all servers and subdomains related to opensolaris.org, and I was definitely not the only one. You find some (only the needed bits) of this old content on https://hg.openindiana.org/ as mercurial repos. Does it mean all that stuff was developed by OpenIndiana? Well, continue dreaming. Do you know the meaning of the term "upstream" in this context? Now to Oracle: After Oracle took over Sun (from 2009 till early) in 2010, they silently ditched OpenSolaris, trying to eat the cake and to keep it. OpenSolaris was silently killed, read more about that else where. Fact is: Oracle could not and cannot close all consolidations, as required by various FOSS licenses. You still find then on opensolaris.org's successor https://solaris.java.net/ And if you are talented enough to checkout repos, it means you can get code from Oracle and use it in whatever distro you want. That's what OI was doing, is doing and also Hipster does. As it is from IPS to IPS (even though different release levels) it's no black magic to do it. The problem by doing so lies in the fact, that Oracle Solaris 11 and 12 no longer supports any 32 bit kernel on any of their supported platforms. And that lead to various decisions that I don't find wise for any Illumos distro to adopt. That's why you find so many user complaints on this very OI list starting a few weeks earlier (Xorg). I had once written long explanations about the New FullyOpenX gate that I initially had developed to share it with OI and DilOS. However, when the US continued their war games in Syria and Ukraine I began to turn my old blog more and more into an entirely political one. Therefore I deleted it. All that's left over from my long explanations for folks who have little experience with X11 development has mostly gone. Maybe I can recommend you the OpenSXCE Readme, but after your smart email yesterday, I also shout it down, at least for a while. Therefore: Bad luck, if you really want to understand what I am talking about. >> How many 0.000% of the time I worked for free on OpenSolaris have >> _____YOU____ >> done anything for free for OpenSolaris? >> > >For starters I have spend many hours figuring out how to compile OpenOffice >and once I managed I posted all my patches to my blog and most of them are >already in the source tree of Libreoffice and OpenOffice. I have done the same >thing with many other projects (e.g., TeXLive sources). Now, tell me where did > >you contribute? I can of course imagine: nowehere! > > >A.S. > > >---------------------- >Apostolos Syropoulos >Xanthi, Greece "For starters"? Did you address me with these words? Funny, I truly don't need any TV, as I keep saying since 1998. The www is full of enough silly things. Let me start by checking your grand famous world-saving OpenOffice "patch", that you are so proud of: https://asyropoulos.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/compiling-openoffice4/ First apply the following patch --- connectivity/source/drivers/odbcbase/ODriver.cxx.old Τετ Ιαν 1 18:23:20 2014 +++ connectivity/source/drivers/odbcbase/ODriver.cxx Τετ Ιαν 1 18:24:08 2014 @@ -68,7 +68,7 @@ // this name is referenced in the configuration and in the odbc.xml // Please take care when changing it. } - +#undef SS typedef Sequence SS; //------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SS ODBCDriver::getSupportedServiceNames_Static( ) throw (RuntimeException) And now delete all references to map files in files ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/mysql/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/manager/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/jdbc/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/hsqldb/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/dbase/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/calc/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/flat/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/adabas/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/drivers/odbc/makefile.mk ./main/connectivity/source/cpool/makefile.mk =========================================================================================================================== build --all:svx <-- This is not valid with the current build! In file /extra/sources/OpenOffice./aoo4/main/svx/source/form/formcontroller.cxx use compat_functional.hxx from LibreOffice! http://docs.libreoffice.org/o3tl/html/compat__functional_8hxx_source.html =========================================================================================================================== build --all:basctl Delete all references to map files in file ./main/basctl/util/makefile.mk =========================================================================================================================== build --all:forms Delete all references to map files in file ./main/forms/util/makefile.mk =========================================================================================================================== build --all:extensions Delete all references to map files in files ./main/extensions/source/logging/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/dbpilots/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/abpilot/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/update/feed/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/oooimprovecore/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/bibliography/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/oooimprovement/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/xmlextract/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/update/check/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/propctrlr/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/update/ui/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/resource/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/scanner/makefile.mk ./main/extensions/source/preload/makefile.mk =========================================================================================================================== build --all:cui Delete all references to map files in file ./main/cui/util/makefile.mk =========================================================================================================================== build --all:starmath Delete all references to map files in file ./main/starmath/util/makefile.mk ================================================================================================== build --all:filter Delete all references to map files in files ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ipbm/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/eras/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/itga/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/itiff/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ipcd/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/msfilter/powerpoint/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ios2met/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/xmlfilteradaptor/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/placeware/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/egif/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/config/cache/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/t602/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/svg/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/pdf/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ipsd/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/xsltfilter/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/idxf/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/epbm/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ipict/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/expm/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/epgm/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ieps/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/iras/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/etiff/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/eppm/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/flash/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/eps/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/ipcx/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/xmlfilterdetect/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/eos2met/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/epict/makefile.mk ./main/filter/source/graphicfilter/icgm/makefile.mk ========================================================================================================================= build --all:sd Delete all references to map files in file ./main/sd/util/makefile.mk ========================================================================================================================= build --all:desktop Delete all references to map files in files ./main/desktop/test/deployment/active/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/test/deployment/boxt/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/so_comp/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/deployment/gui/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/migration/services/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/app/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/splash/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/test/deployment/passive/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/deployment/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/offacc/makefile.mk ./main/desktop/source/pkgchk/unopkg/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================== build --all:chart2 Delete all references to map files in files ./main/chart2/source/controller/makefile.mk ./main/chart2/source/model/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================= build --all:sc Delete all references to map files in files ./main/sc/addin/rot13/makefile.mk ./main/sc/util/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================= build --all:scripting Delete all references to map files in files ./main/scripting/source/dlgprov/makefile.mk ./main/scripting/source/vbaevents/makefile.mk ./main/scripting/source/basprov/makefile.mk ./main/scripting/source/stringresource/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================== build --all:writerfilter Delete all references to map files in file ./main/writerfilter/util/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================== build --all:dbaccess Delete all references to map files in files ./main/dbaccess/source/ext/macromigration/makefile.mk ./main/dbaccess/source/ext/adabas/makefile.mk ./main/dbaccess/util/makefile.mk ./main/dbaccess/source/filter/xml/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================== build --all:reportdesign Delete all references to map files in file ./main/reportdesign/util/makefile.mk ======================================================================================================================= Well, I'm very impressed. Only one question: Did you ever take into account the option to prevent "all references to map files in all mk files" from being created by configure in the first place, rather then advising users to manually delete them with an editor in 100 or a few 100's files? That would be a patch then, maybe with only one - and a single + line, but good software then. Now back to myself. From your wise statements it becomes evident, that you either never even installed OpenSolaris until a short time ago, or don't know how to use google, or both. From 2003 until 2006 was was at Blastwave and of course published all diffs related to the 3 packages that I was the maintainer of. Most notably I co-ported Qemu to Solaris, especially to SPARC-Solaris hosts. Together with Juergen Keil and Ben Taylor. But I was the once who brought that project into creation, and who did the tough register related parts on SPARC-Solaris, with help from Juergen Keil. It was then published (because I was more interested in improving the port further, rather than getting praise from the back then not very Solaris-loving Qemu community)) under Ben Taylor's name (although he only tested it). There you have the first src patches that made it into a public repo, back in 2005/2006. Where have you been at that time? The I was the first person outside Sun (without xsvc driver) who ever in world history got aperture working on Solaris-amd64 and therefore was the first one who ever managed to start an amd64-binary of Xorg in summer of 2006! The same time when I had released the MartUX Blastwave x86-x64 LiveDVD with KDE! The src made it into the the current Xorg release: PATCH: Added amd64 support for aperture driver (plus cosmetics to make aperture building on sun4v) http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-June/016170.html Actual diff: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg/attachments/20060626/96e69c2c/attachment.obj Equally as much I was the first person ever who created a SPARC OpenSolaris distro, the first person ever who got Xorg working on SPARC-OpenSolaris and a few other such records such as KMS now working in OpenSXCE x86-x64, although broken. Until 2009 I held thre (3==3) core contributor grants at OpenSolaris.org. In 2008 I was nominated for membership in the OpenSolaris CommunityAdvisoryBoard: http://www.archivum.info/ogb-disc...@opensolaris.org/2008-02/00496/%28ogb-discuss%29-Nominations-Martin-Bochnig-and-Joerg-Schilling.html """""I hereby nominate for board member of the OpenSolaris Governing Board the honorable Mr. Martin Bochnig and the esteemed Mr. Joerg Schilling. Both would be exceptional board members who shall faithfully serve the community as their representatives. benr.""""" I furthermore took part in and held talks on international OpenSolaris Developer conferences in Germany and California: http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/osdevcon2007/abstracts.html#4_4_1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/stiefkind/409011208/ And of course I was from 2006 till 2009 active member not only of my own MartUX community, but also of OpenSolaris.org's X11 XNV / FullyOpenX communities and published all of my sources to their and my own repos, in some cases justs plain diffs or tarballs, with longer explanations on opensolaris-disc...@opensolaris.org and xwin-disc...@opensolaris.org Only after all this and after Sun had even invited me into theit Menlo Park X11 lab, they suddenly introduced Xorg on their commercial Solaris10, SXCE11, Solaris Express11 and 11.x producs on SPARC. (although in a very basic manner, as they got management orders to kill their own SPARC-Desktop market and the entire sun4u [except Fujitsu] line, while removing completely also sun4u cpu support from their publicly know Solaris 11 branch ... lol, although there is more to that story, but not here and certainly not to you,). Well, where did I stop, It is 3am once again and I would like to stop wasting more of my time here. Therfore only this, check it or let it: http://bkandbc.blogspot.de/2015/02/comparison-of-opensolaris-derivatives.html Comparison of OpenSolaris Derivatives After Oracle effectively neutered the OpenSolaris project, many spin-offs of the public source code popped up, like oh-so-many mushrooms in a fallow field. Many short-lived derivatives have come and gone, and there have been some surprising changes in the ecosystem. I decided that it was time for a re-evaluation of the available variants. It should be noted that the goal here is to compare these various OpenSolaris spin-offs against each other, not against other FOSS operating systems. As such, I focus primarily on the quantifiable traits that differentiate them. Things that they all have in common are omitted. Traits like the software packaging system in use are not quantitative, only qualitative, so that's not of interest here (though it is a serious consideration for usability). Similarly, capabilities relative to other operating system families like GNU/Linux, the BSDs, or Windows are outside the scope of this comparison. In considering each variant, I looked at the following attributes: Download ease - could a download be quickly and readily obtained from the variant's main page? Version maintenance - has an official release been made within the last 365 days? Documentation availability - could installation and setup documentation be found easily from the download page? Documentation maintenance - does the available documentation cover up to the most recent official release? Boot capability - does the variant support EFI boot on x86-64 "out of the box" Disk label recognition - can the variant read GPT disk labels, at least in a non-boot capacity? VirtIO support as a KVM guest - VirtIO block devices, network devices, memory ballooning, CPU hotplugging, and serial devices are all considered Ability to act as a KVM host - pretty self-explanatory, all via the Joyent illumos-kvm project Each attribute affords a total of one point- all are boolean, one or zero, with the exception of VirtIO support, with each of the five components counting for 1/5 of a point. The total ranking is then expressed as a percentage and a letter grade. Here is the summary (full results available in this PDF): Name TOTAL Grade Version Tested SmartOS 85% B 3783 OpenSXCE 85% B 2014.05 OmniOS 85% B 151012 Oracle Solaris 65% D 11.2 DilOS 60% D 1.3.7 OpenIndiana 58% F 151a Dyson 58% F 1327 illumian 58% F 1 Belenix 0% Incomplete N/A Non-Solaris Comparisons: Fedora 100% A 21 FreeBSD 88% B 10.1 I've included the same criteria applied to Fedora 21 and FreeBSD 10.1 for reference only- their capabilities aren't intended to be a part of this analysis. As we can see, the clear leaders under this evaluation are OpenSXCE, Joyent's SmartOS, and OmniTI's OmniOS, all with a "B" grade at 85%. Next with a "D" grade are stock Oracle Solaris and DilOS. OpenIndiana, OS Dyson, and Illumian are close behind those two, though still technically with failing grades. Belenix could not be evaluated due to the main website being unavailable- it's apparently in the process of moving to a GitHub-hosted website, and the move is not yet complete. While there are a few stars shining out in this bunch, to somebody who remembers the "golden days" of the OpenSolaris project, I can only reach one conclusion: the FOSS Solaris movement has been fractured. The best contenders receive a "B" on the evaluation, and two of those three have significant backing from large IT companies. It seems that no single OpenSolaris-derived project has the community backing required to bring it to premier status, and I'm concerned that without such support, the only FOSS System V derivative may be quickly headed towards fork-and-die oblivion... What else in a hurry: My LinkedIn profile contains at least a short summary of what I have contributed. Click all links! https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinbochnig OpenSXCE.org Founder and Project Leader OpenSXCE.org 2006 – Heute (9 Jahre)Berlin und Umgebung, Deutschland OpenSXCE is a general purpose "OpenSolaris SXCE like" Community developed/-oriented Distribution based on Illumos.org and tons of open source software. It runs on i386 and x86_64 based computers down to Pentium3 and on SPARC servers, telcos && workstations manufactured between 1995 and 2011 (sun4u and sun4v) . OpenSXCE contiues to be based on the top notch latest bits of Illumos.org. {*0} http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/osdevcon2007/abstracts.html#4_4_1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSolaris """""MartUX[59] is the first SPARC distribution of OpenSolaris, with an alpha prototype released by Martin Bochnig in April 2006. It was distributed as a Live CD but is later available only on DVD as it has had the Blastwave community software added.[60] Its goal was to become a desktop operating system. The first SPARC release was a small Live CD, released as marTux_0.2 Live CD[61] in summer of 2006, the first straight OpenSolaris distribution for SPARC (not to be confused with GNOME metacity theme). It was later re-branded as MartUX and the next releases included full SPARC installers in addition to the Live media. Much later, MartUX was re-branded as OpenSXCE when it moved to the first OpenSolaris release to support both SPARC and Intel architectures after Sun was acquired by Oracle.[62]""""" OpenSXCE 2013.05 Revives The Solaris Community http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM4Njc Die offizielle "OpenSolaris Bible" hatte mir bzw. OpenSXCE's Vorlaeufer MartUX sogar ein eigenes kleines Kapitel gewidmed: http://it-ebooks.info/book/1881/ Es gibt davon sogar japanische und russische UEbersetzungen, z.B. hier: http://iboxjo.h1.ru/books/bibleos/ebook/chapter2.pdf LBNL: I recommend you, that you perform at the minimum a quick read of the official OpenSolaris Bible which contains a small chapter about me and OpenSXCE's ancestor MartUX, before you call me a "Starter" for the next time. And for the last time: IPS polluted distros are not compatible with my personal enthusiasm. That plus Sun's 2007 dictatorship and community distruction plus a few other things are the reson, why I in fact DON'T WANT to ever join the so called OI community, ever in my lifetime. Those interested in more than 100 imporovements of this here: Visit opensxce.org from time to time. The new Mega-Distro is no Vapoware. While not yet completed, it will be available one day. Now I don'T intend to spell-check this long text at 3:06am on Easter Friday. If there are too many spelling errors: Sorry. Now back to my own OpenSXCE work until 7am and then GOOD NIGHT! Yes, I will at this time then also publish the src code and diffs, as required by all these various licenses. So as soon as you here start to realiye what KMS is and why it is not always the best idea to simply use the very latest Oracle code on Illumos based distros (no KMS kernel driver for Intel, not for Ati) Therfefor no X11 on Intel and Ati gfx (except Vesa). Also: Oracle Solaris11.x can do an incredible number of things better than Illumos (e.g. USB3, Intel-DRM/GEM/KMS, Ati-DRM/GEMKMS, zfs encryption, croinfo) I am friendly enough to provide you advice in 2 cases: #0.) Newer is not always better, at least not, if your underlying kernel is snv_147 and therefore missing croinfo, KMS while Oracle Solaris 11 discontinued IA32 kernels and therfore mixes traditional IA32 locations with amd64 binaries. Xorg - hint: RING RING! #1.) Illumos branched off Nevada 5 years ago. It is difficult to support all the new fancy kernel functionality that Oracle has since then successfully added to Oracle's internal OS/Net in Illumos! Especially given the small number of kernel developers around here. However - for what reason (ignoring "feelings" and "enthusiasm" for a minute) should somebody still decide to choose and prefer Illumos based distros over Oracle Solaris 11, which also can be downloaded free of charge and I guess hardly any home user (not sure about small biz installs) will pay (or even be capable of paying, let alone willingness) Oracle's Premium license fees. So we can conclude: In this "hobby" user market Oracle Solaris 11 is equally as free, as OI or OpenSXCE. Hence it is a potentioal competitor. So, if we cannot deliver so many good things in Illumos, that Solaris 11 does have, how can Illumos based distros still offer a benefit to hobby users ...?! Right: By simply continuing to offer all those things, that Oracle EOL'ed because it no longer is seen as being lucrative to them. Such as: SPARC sun4u and SPARCDesktop support, continued IA32 kernel compatibility for Pentium IV era machines or embedded IA32 systems or older laptops, However: By blindly adpoting newer Oracle X11 gates you kill so called "legacy" compatibility with older but still quite capable IA32 systems and older gfx adapters. I wrote about all of this years ago, but nobdy joined the OpenSXCE community. Only this is the reason, I never published the diffs. How can an OS that is younger than my own demand me to work on their OI, while they refuse to join OpenSXCE and even ridiculed it in some cases on IRC in 2012?? BIG BIG THANKS to everybody else, who did help me and is mentioned in the official OpenSXCE Readme file :):) Cheers, %martin _______________________________________________ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
