OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee 26 February 2013 Attendees: Koen (koen) Khem (khem) Fray (fray) Paul (bluelightning) Apologies: Richard (RP)
Notes: Jefro ________________________________________________________________ Agenda & Results 1. pick a chair ___________________________________ 2. new issues a. mailing list outage mailing list moving to OSUOSL or YP ** list addresses will not change discussion in progress b. meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2013-February/043925.html no avr32 support in public layers NOTE: Martin responded extensively to the prior minutes c. systemd merge unhappiness people feel ignored and then being told they should have spoken up in oe-core, in general as well as on systemd specifically => jefro to follow up with RP d. oe.org flooded refs to oe.org git should point to github => jefro to follow up with scottrif => khem to fix the oe wiki and reminder to ml possible to move server at some point? => jefro to investigate YP hosting, kernel.org mirror ___________________________________ 3. lingering issues a. raise awareness of "janitor" list, QA "bugs" b. document whitespace changes to the shell http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Commit_Patch_Message_Guidelines http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Styleguide also https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Recipe_%26_Patch_Style_Guide => still need to de-dup these c. SMART has replaced zypper (was documenting RPM and package feeds) Paul wrote: https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Smart_Repository_Setup d. patchwork queue => Paul to talk to scottrif about adding to docs not done e. raise ntp with the Yocto Project [RP] immediate need addressed, reasonable default needed use LICENSE_FLAGS - non-commercial RP/Jefro were to raise at next AB - done discussion underway f. oe-classic recipe migration status RP played with perl modules, fixed up cpan_build.bbclass g. some items dropped from oe-core but not yet in meta-oe ___________________________________ 4. status a. oe-core release b. infrastructure mailing list issue described above wiki spam issues wiki requires updating & spam module done c. 1.4 planning systemd into master - still in progress ________________________________________________________________ Raw Transcript (8:59:30 AM) mode (+v Jefro) by ChanServ (8:59:52 AM) Jefro: good morning - looks quiet in here this morning (9:02:03 AM) koenkooi: right (9:02:12 AM) koenkooi: I might need to leave my desk for another meeting (9:03:27 AM) koenkooi: irc on phone now (9:03:55 AM) Jefro: koenkooi ok - if no one shows up there won't be a meeting (9:04:52 AM) Jefro: fray are you here? I have pinged others (9:05:07 AM) fray: ya here.. sorry (9:05:13 AM) Jefro: ok, thanks (9:05:19 AM) fray: was just talking to RP, sounds like he's about to get on a plane (9:05:36 AM) Jefro: ah, no kidding (9:05:41 AM) Jefro: I'm putting an agenda together, but this is hardly a quorum (9:06:07 AM) Jefro: I don't think anything is overly pressing, perhaps it would be best to defer for a week or just skip this one (9:06:15 AM) koenkooi: right (9:06:27 AM) khem [~k...@99-57-140-209.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] entered the room. (9:06:27 AM) mode (+v khem) by ChanServ (9:06:31 AM) Jefro: hi khem (9:06:34 AM) bluelightning [~paul@pdpc/supporter/professional/bluelightning] entered the room. (9:06:35 AM) khem: Hello (9:06:45 AM) bluelightning: hi all (9:06:49 AM) khem: I am on train for next 10-15 mins (9:06:50 AM) koenkooi: the only concerns I heard were social, not technical (9:06:56 AM) bluelightning: I think RP is on a plane atm or waiting to get on one (9:07:03 AM) khem: then I will disconect for 5 mins and come back (9:07:06 AM) Jefro: yes, just heard from him (9:07:20 AM) khem: koenkooi: context ? (9:07:36 AM) Jefro: if khem comes back then we actually have a quorum, and I'm interested in the social issues (9:07:39 AM) koenkooi: systemd merge unhappiness (9:08:02 AM) fray: I'm happy to sit and wait for a quorum.. (9:08:04 AM) koenkooi: see oe-core ml (9:08:35 AM) ***koenkooi is in a real life meeting as well (9:08:37 AM) khem: I m here (9:09:18 AM) Jefro: koenkooi are you able to talk about these social issues or is the IRL meeting interfering? (9:09:37 AM) koenkooi: I can try (9:10:25 AM) koenkooi: the main concern is that people feel ignored and then being told they should have spoken up (9:10:36 AM) koenkooi: which they did (9:11:04 AM) fray: koenkooi in general, or on systemd issues or? (9:11:08 AM) khem: koenkooi: yes, thats a concern (9:11:11 AM) koenkooi: both (9:11:17 AM) khem: but I think its ok too (9:11:26 AM) Jefro: here is an agenda: http://pastebin.com/EgkuKM22 (9:11:35 AM) khem: since if I care of something upstream I should voice myself up (9:12:08 AM) khem: koenkooi: but I guess it depends (9:12:15 AM) koenkooi: the general issue is that @intel.com and @windriver.com email addresses are a carte blanche for getting crap in (9:12:51 AM) bluelightning: koenkooi: that is not true, patches from both are frequently rejected (9:12:57 AM) koenkooi: people can point out bugs during review all day long and get ignored (9:13:03 AM) khem: koenkooi: in oe-core you mean ? or in general (9:13:21 AM) koenkooi: bluelightning: just repeating what people tell me (9:13:32 AM) koenkooi: khem: oe-core (9:13:42 AM) fray: koenkooi, I know of a bunch of WR stuff that has NOT gone in, and likely never will (due to various technical issues) (9:13:59 AM) khem: bluelightning: it has happened that I reviewed something which eventually made in without addressing my comments or even saying if they were worthless (9:14:16 AM) Jefro: I think it is important that there is a perception that this is happening, whether or not the stats show it to be true (9:14:16 AM) fray: that sounds like Saul/RP missed comments.. (9:14:22 AM) bluelightning: khem: which was this? (9:14:33 AM) koenkooi: my main example is the opkg version patch for powervr (9:14:45 AM) fray: I know RP has mentioned to me a few times that things passed testing and were merged by accident.. he hadn't meant it (9:14:46 AM) khem: but in general I guess its the amount of patches sometimes that boggs down (9:14:56 AM) bluelightning: khem: if that ever occurs it would be good to follow up and ask why it was merged given not all concerns were addressed (9:15:01 AM) khem: bluelightning: I have to find ml pointer (9:15:15 AM) koenkooi: personally I'm content with the proces (9:15:28 AM) koenkooi: but a lot of people are angry (9:15:37 AM) fray: I agree.. if something wasn't addressed.. my assumption is that it slipped through the cracks, it wasn't malicious.. (9:15:39 AM) koenkooi: and vent during conferences (9:15:41 AM) khem: I guess a tiered approach would be better (9:15:51 AM) fray: so I supply a patch to correct whatever I saw was wrong.. but that is me (9:16:10 AM) khem: where given part of metadata goes through a submaintainer (9:16:13 AM) Jefro: the Linux kernel went for years with this kind of thing happening before Linus was forced to create a hierarchy (9:16:25 AM) koenkooi: and when I bring it up I get "some patches were rejected" as a response (9:16:33 AM) fray: ya.. "way back when" we discussed this, and the issue is that we need maintainers who are willing to step up and do this stuff.. (9:16:53 AM) Jefro: is there a perceptual difference between "rejected" and "ignored"? (9:17:05 AM) koenkooi: davest said we'd need to put jefro on this (9:17:14 AM) fray: I agree breaking up the load.. especially between userspace, kernel, classes and toolchain/tunings is likely a first good approach (9:17:27 AM) khem: yes, thats the way out (9:17:38 AM) fray: I know I've seen more things "ignored" then rejected.. but I always tell people.. resubmit.. (9:17:39 AM) khem: we thought it would stabilize after initial churn (9:17:47 AM) khem: but it hasnt in 2 years (9:17:50 AM) fray: and keep doing so until they tell you not to.. (my advice for -any- project) (9:18:00 AM) khem: I will deboard the train (9:18:16 AM) khem: lets see if I catch gthe company wifi (9:18:30 AM) Jefro: RP should really be here for this discussion. I will bring it up with him and also will suggest that we hold a special OE TSC session just to cover this sometime in the next week or two. (9:18:46 AM) fray: Jefro, I think that's a good idea.. (9:18:54 AM) koenkooi: Jefro: can we do a phonecall tomorrow? this phone keyboard isn't expressing it well (9:20:00 AM) bluelightning: seems sensible, I agree RP should be involved in this discussion (9:20:03 AM) Jefro: Very possibly, but it really depends on RP's schedule, I don't know what he's up to. I will follow up. (9:20:49 AM) fray: I have no objections to a call.. (9:21:13 AM) fray: So what I see is two issues.. People believe they are being ignored in comments and review steps -- and patches are being dropped/ignored... (9:21:23 AM) fray: does that primarily cover the concerns we can address? (9:21:38 AM) koenkooi: yes (9:22:10 AM) fray: ok.. then I'd say we let Jefro organize a meet w/ RP and we'll see what we can do. It might be a good idea to bring in Saul on this as well since he's doing a lot of the day-to-day patch readiness.. (9:22:56 AM) Jefro: yes, should definitely include Saul (9:23:39 AM) Jefro: ok - does everyone want to cover the rest of the agenda, or punt on it for now? (9:23:51 AM) Jefro: I know I got my ARs done :) (9:23:57 AM) koenkooi: I say punt :) (9:24:03 AM) fray: I'm happy w/ punt (9:24:19 AM) fray: I think we've got a plan now for the largest issue.... (9:24:26 AM) Jefro: yes, at leat a next step (9:24:34 AM) fray: (plan on how to proceed that is.. not necessarily fix it) (9:25:19 AM) bluelightning: my ARs haven't been addressed yet (9:25:21 AM) bluelightning: FYI (9:25:32 AM) Jefro: ok (9:25:53 AM) Jefro: but you did write the SMART repo setup doc, so we'll let it slide for now (9:27:17 AM) Jefro: we did discuss NTP at the Yocto Project AB, and RP has the action to bring it to the YP mailing list (9:27:28 AM) khem: I have another thing (9:27:50 AM) khem: there are some references to oe.org git in yocto docs IIRC (9:28:01 AM) khem: where to get sources (9:28:18 AM) khem: may be that should point to github mirror ? (9:28:45 AM) khem: in general Tom mentioned that it would be good if we always pulled from github (9:28:56 AM) Jefro: is oe.org being flooded? (9:29:04 AM) khem: it seems (9:29:30 AM) khem: Martin saw delays when he was pushing meta-oe commits (9:29:30 AM) Jefro: github is one option, another is making the server bigger (9:29:59 AM) khem: I guess gihub is better since we dont have the replication problem across the globe (9:30:11 AM) fray: my concern with github is "control". I'm not convinced it's the safest place for a primary server.. (secondary/backup sure) (9:30:23 AM) koenkooi: pull server (9:30:24 AM) Jefro: I can take the action to talk with Scott about changing those references to github (9:30:30 AM) koenkooi: not push server (9:31:23 AM) fray: koenkooi ok.. (9:31:34 AM) Jefro: for now I'll talk with scott about the docs, but that may or may not help the problem (9:31:36 AM) fray: ya, I think it's key to tell people to use the mirror (9:32:02 AM) fray: but I know I switch back and forth between the git.oe.org and the github ones.. (9:32:15 AM) fray: (I usually do the initial sync from github, and then pull's from oe) (9:33:17 AM) Jefro: note that the main setup doc refers to git.oe.org instead of github: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OE-Core_Standalone_Setup (9:33:26 AM) Jefro: that may be a much larger source for traffic than the YP docs (9:33:52 AM) Jefro: I can also take the AR to search for things like this and change them to the github mirror (9:34:40 AM) bluelightning: personally I think it would be nice to not have to rely on external mirrors... (9:35:12 AM) khem: Jefro: yes that one too (9:35:21 AM) fray: I agree.. ultimately I think the mirrors should be just that, mirrors.. but the primary point of access is enoughf or the project (9:35:24 AM) khem: Jefro: we were trying to identify what could lead to it (9:35:42 AM) khem: using mirrors for pulling isnt bad IMO (9:35:47 AM) fray: But this is a place where I don't know what we can do to help (9:35:53 AM) khem: now we have pull model it makes sense (9:36:11 AM) khem: Just change the docs to promote use of mirrors (9:36:13 AM) khem: I guess (9:36:21 AM) fray: khem, I think that should be our first step.. (9:36:28 AM) fray: also remind people on the mailing list.. (9:36:28 AM) khem: right (9:36:54 AM) Jefro: who wants to take that action? (9:37:29 AM) khem: I can edit the wiki (9:37:43 AM) khem: but if anyone else sees references correcting them will help (9:37:53 AM) khem: I can also send a friendly reminder to ml (9:38:43 AM) Jefro: khem ok, thanks (9:40:09 AM) Jefro: I can report a bit on 2a. I have contacted the OE board as well as Tom and Michael, and it seems likely that the mailing lists will move over to a YP server. (9:40:18 AM) khem: yay (9:40:19 AM) Jefro: Timing is not yet determined (9:40:32 AM) fray: cool.. that will hopefully resolve that issue.. (9:41:01 AM) fray: (back to the git discussion, is there a reason to discuss the git as well [someday]) (9:41:24 AM) Jefro: fray hmm - that is a good question (9:41:48 AM) Jefro: I will mention it to Michael first, as it would be his job to administer such a thing and I think it would probably be hit a lot harder than an email server (9:42:15 AM) koenkooi: 3G is flaking out, I'll drop soon (9:42:19 AM) fray: I agree.. that and what about meta-oe and related.. they're not essential to the YP.. so do they want the burden of managing them all (9:42:19 AM) Jefro: eventually something like that should happen, I would think (9:42:28 AM) Jefro: koenkooi ok, thanks for sticking with it (9:42:31 AM) fray: I'm not against it.. just have to do it if it makes sense (9:42:50 AM) Jefro: another option is for OE to hire a sysadmin and beef up servers (9:43:02 AM) fray: is it the servers, or is it bandwidth? (9:43:06 AM) fray: (or both) (9:43:08 AM) Jefro: seems impossible right now, but OE does very little fundraising, so it could happen in the future (9:44:39 AM) khem: fray: I think its also that we have uses across the oceans (9:44:54 AM) fray: ya... seems reasonable (9:45:00 AM) Jefro: I wonder if it would be possible to use kernel.org as a mirror at some point (9:45:18 AM) khem: thats a good idea (9:45:39 AM) Jefro: I can discuss this with the linux foundation just to find out the possibilities (9:45:43 AM) Jefro: are there any traffic stats at all? (9:45:47 AM) khem: but I heard people have started to use github mirror for kernel a lot (9:46:06 AM) fray: at least with git, it helps prevent malicious commits on a mirror.. (9:46:13 AM) fray: you can always verify at the original site (9:49:11 AM) khem: yes (9:49:45 AM) Jefro: time running short - moving on & cherry picking through the agenda (9:50:02 AM) Jefro: khem - we got advice from wmat to install a module on the wiki, has that helped the spam issue at all? (9:50:02 AM) khem: on infra side we are setting up jenkins which will test all layers that are active besides oe-core (9:50:11 AM) khem: Jefro: yes it has (9:50:16 AM) khem: thanks for that (9:50:50 AM) khem: jenkins is already setup and I am awaiting tom to setup 2 extra slaves for regressing layers (9:51:21 AM) khem: we plan to send mails to authors on regression (9:51:39 AM) khem: but scripting is not done yet (9:51:40 AM) fray: cool.. is this focused primarily on the layers, or also oe-core? (9:52:00 AM) khem: we believe oe-core is pounded enough on yocto AB (9:52:06 AM) fray: ok (9:52:09 AM) khem: its to cover other layers (9:53:13 AM) khem: eventually we would encourange layer maintainers to use it as pre commit criteria (9:56:22 AM) Jefro: ok, 4 minutes - anyone have any other high priority stuff? (9:56:30 AM) fray: i'm good (9:57:11 AM) Jefro: ok, I'm calling it - thanks all & have a good day (9:57:16 AM) fray: thank you! (10:03:56 AM) bluelightning: thanks (11:01:18 AM) khem left the room. (11:18:01 AM) bluelightning left the room (quit: Quit: Konversation terminated!!!111). -- Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org _______________________________________________ Openembedded-core mailing list Openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org http://lists.linuxtogo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
