Hi Cholena
Just want to correct you here on your statement that /"I know ESRI
focused on the travel grant this year, and have expressed a
willingness to do that again."/
The Esri sponsorship was justified on their side as support for the
OpenStreetMap community, and for the State of the Map part of our
conference. This doesn't mean anything for us as the local organising
committee, though, as it's just general conference sponsorship. They
did sponsor the TGP breakfast as part of their support, which was nice.
Separately, the conference committee budgeted for 20% of all
sponsorship to go as additional support towards the travel grant
program, but that was an internal matter and decision.
Regarding next year's global event, I'm not going to comment on
private conversations I've had with a range of potential sponsors, but
please be aware that we (the local organising committee) and we (the
OSGeo Oceania Board) are taking this email thread seriously.
Cheers,
On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 19:33, Cholena Smart via Oceania
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm on the 'this makes me uncomfortable' side of the fence here. I
think Andrew J has articulated it really nicely, and I strongly
support the notion that sponsorship should be carefully
considered, not just the who, but the how as well.
I know ESRI focused on the travel grant this year, and have
expressed a willingness to do that again. The travel grant program
is one of the most prominent components of the conference, and it
is built on the time, energy and good will of a bunch of
volunteers, as well as the financial contributions from other
sponsors and individuals, and the notion that you might be able to
buy influence and bypass all that goodness just doesn't seem
right. I'd hope not to see one financial sponsor receiving more
credit, rights, or recognition than any other contributor in this
case.
On a side note, I did hear a mocking comment from one of the ESRI
reps at the conference about the open sourceness of the
conference, which really hasn't helped me formulate a positive
opinion. Anyway, I'm really glad this was raised (thank you
Andrew) - more than one conversation was had about it at the
conference, so it's great to see a more public discussion.
Cheers,
Cholena
On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 09:28, Simon Nitz via Oceania
<[email protected]> wrote:
Happy to shoot this particular elephant!
To be honest I have been shat on by certain NZ ESRI partners
(note there is no direct ESRI presence in NZ, which may have
made a difference) over the years - both as a vendor and as a
potential client. So, I have no particular love for the NZ
ESRI partners (although there are some exceptional individuals
I talk to occasionally).
I think it is fantastic that everyone is engaging in this
conversation (even if my own views may not align with
everyone) and we should certainly consider our communities
views when looking at sponsorship in the future.
Cheers
Simon
*From:*Oceania <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of
*Carrol Chan via Oceania
*Sent:* Thursday, November 21, 2024 2:08 PM
*To:* eli <[email protected]>
*Cc:* OSgeo - Oceania <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [OSGeo Oceania] FOSS4G Hobart - Elephant in the
room ESRI
Hi all,
Even though I did not attend the conference this year I was
definitely a bit taken aback when I saw ESRI as a sponsor and
completely understand the feelings of those who have been
burned not only by regional distributors, but also strong ESRI
advocates. However, I believe our community (especially young
and recent graduates) is made up of many 'converted' ESRI
users, and in some cases we're basically preaching to the
choir. I see this as a positive step, where it opens the
opportunity to build a bridge to many individuals on the other
side who are just as passionate about their work and looking
to belong to a community as awesome as ours. At the end of the
day, we all utilise what works for us, whether open or
commercial. I definitely sound naive, but as Eli has
mentioned, I've also learned to value and trust individuals
over large (and sometimes scary) organisations, and I think it
would be a step back to close our community off to
organisations such as ESRI, which could also make individuals
associated feel unwelcome.
This discussion is incredibly valuable, and I hope it
continues as it would be useful for the organising committee
for next year's global FOSS4G in Auckland!
Vinaka,
Carrol
On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 11:12, eli via Oceania
<[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks to Andrew and everyone else who has contributed to
this discussion. It seems to have stirred quite a reaction
in the community, and it’s important to address it.
As Alex pointed out, the committee's decisions are
somewhat separate from the board. That said, I personally
supported this initiative. Like many of you, I’ve been
‘burned’ by ESRI regional distributors, who in some
countries actively try (and sometimes succeed) to poach
potential clients. This creates significant damage to
small companies like mine, all for a few thousand dollars
that likely don’t even cover their Christmas party expenses.
However, I was thrilled to have Kate Fickas as one of our
(all female) keynote speakers. In my opinion, she’s an
amazing person who genuinely cares about community
building, as demonstrated through her Ladies of Landsat
group and her ongoing activism on social media. She’s also
a long-time friend of FOSS4G OO, having been a keynote
speaker at our online 2021 conference, waking up at an
ungodly hour to help us deliver quality content during a
challenging time. It’s also worth noting that she was
selected and agreed to be a keynote speaker for the Hobar
conference before anyone considered having ESRI as a sponsor.
From what I understand, Kate played a pivotal role in
encouraging ESRI to sponsor the conference, as one of her
roles is community building. I recognise that some may
view this as an attempt from ESRI to interfere in our
community, and I don’t want to be naïve and discard that
possibility. Nevertheless, I tend to value and trust
individuals over large organizations. My experience has
shown that we shouldn’t judge people’s intentions and
behaviour based solely on the companies they work for.
We have talented, passionate members in our community who
work for ‘questionable’ big companies, and we embrace
them. If we cut off ESRI, should we also discuss those
other companies? Perhaps, and I’d be happy to contribute
to that conversation. But if we accept contributions from
other companies, why not try to build a bridge with ESRI,
which is undeniably doing good things with GDAL and in the
OSM world? Additionally, having ESRI at our conference
could attract to the OS world people and countries that
primarily use ESRI software, like the Cook Islands.
For these reasons, I was pleased that the committee
decided to explore this bridge-building opportunity at the
conference. I thoroughly enjoyed Kate’s keynote address
and our discussions, as she had many interesting and
practical ideas for empowering specific members of our
community, including women and non-native English speakers.
That said, what matters most to me is our community. I
want it to thrive, grow, and feel comfortable and safe
above all else. I’m more than willing to advocate against
ESRI sponsorship in the future if the majority feels it’s
a threat rather than an opportunity. OO exists because of
all of you, and your needs always come first in our
decisions. Let’s continue this discussion and see where it
leads us.
Cheers,
Elisa
Il giorno gio 21 nov 2024 alle ore 10:32 Alex Leith via
Oceania <[email protected]> ha scritto:
Hi Andrew
Thanks for raising this, and I'm glad we're having the
discussion.
The local organising committee for FOSS4G SotM Oceania
operates independently of the Board, even though some
on the committee may be Board members. And as a
committee, we talked a lot about decisions on
keynotes, making sure we were bringing the right
influence to the event, the right "vibe". We talked
less about sponsors, really, and that was mostly
delegated to the sponsorship team (which was mostly
Nick Forbes-Smith and me).
So, there are two separate items here, as you note.
Kate Fickas was invited as a keynote speaker because
she's been an incredible advocate for women and I
think her keynote was really good. She spoke about
specific initiatives, like how she worked with others
in the USGS to get Virginia T. Norwood recognition as
the person who actually invented Landsat!
The Esri sponsorship came up separately, though I
think Kate may have encouraged it. And Esri were able
to justify their sponsorship internally due to their
support for the SotM component of our conference. Kate
acknowledged in her keynote that Esri uses open source
software in their applications. It's worth noting that
Esri supported the GDAL Barnraising efforts in a
significant way (https://gdalbarn.com/.)
Now, I know that some have been burned by Esri
resellers doing things that are not good, and there's
a lot of hard feelings around. I don't discount that
at all. But I feel as a community we should keep the
gate open. We need support from business to make the
conference happen, and we'll need it for the global
event next year in a big way. Other organisations that
may sponsor may or may have imperfect reputations in
some areas, but good people work in all of these
organisations. I believe it’s reasonable to welcome
sponsorship from any organisation, provided they agree
to our code of conduct and other reasonable conditions
set by the community.
My honest personal take is that we should expect
sponsors to not be anti-open source and not be
anti-competitive. But I think we should hold ourselves
to similar standards. The era of militant
anti-proprietary software movements has largely
passed, and in many ways, we’ve already won. As I
mentioned during the “pitch a future” session at the
conference, the open movement feels inevitable.
Microsoft’s journey from labeling open source a
“virus” to embracing it wholeheartedly is a prime
example. Should we have rejected Microsoft's
contributions to past events?
Kind regards,
On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 02:53, Andrew Jeffrey via
Oceania <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi All,
I hope everyone that was able to attend the FOSS4G
SOTM Oceania Hobart conference had a great time.
I'm still very much bummed that I wasn't able to
make it down there and my only start at the OO
conference remains Melbourne in 2018. I plan on
improving my numbers as best I can into the
future, but from the outside looking in, it looked
like all those that attended had a blast - well
done conference committee and OO board.
I am writing to the list because I have a question
that has been bugging me ever since I talked to a
colleague who attended the event. That question is
"What's the deal with ESRI being a sponsor?". I
have genuine curiosity when it comes to the
decision process in having them on board. I
understand these things take money to put on and
the conference needs to turn a profit, a healthy
conference makes for a healthy OO which allows the
organisation to do many of the great things that
they do. However, I think this sponsorship from
ESRI should be reconsidered in the future.
Just to be clear, I am not opposed to speakers who
work for ESRI coming and talking, from all reports
the keynote from Kate Fickas was amazing (as were
all the keynotes from what I hear) and these are
the industry people that we all crave to hear from
- top job in landing that line up! But as for
sponsorship I feel that ESRI is putting their
brand on a community that a lot of us turned to
when looking for refuge from them.
I acknowledge that my opinion on this is biased as
a QGIS advocate and trainer. But something about
this just feels off! I don't see what's in it for
the FOSS4G community having ESRI involved in our
conferences, to me it looks more of a cheap way
for them to buy some good news without doing
anything to improve the relationship with the
FOSS4G community.
However, I know I wasn't there, and I could be
wrong about the whole thing. Maybe the
overwhelming opinion is that it's a good thing and
this is a step in the right direction? I would be
interested in hearing what people think and even
hearing from someone on the conference organising
committee that has more knowledge about this. Is
this something the conference would do again? Is
there a limit to their involvement? What would
have happened if they were a platinum sponsor and
got the primary logo placement + verbal mention at
opening and closing of the event?
Thanks
Andrew
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