In the case of dynamic client registration for apps, I suppose the implementations will use other techniques (many of them are proprietary) to test if the app is the one created by themselves or not. Otherwise, it would not improve the situation very much.
Nat Nat Sakimura / n-sakim...@nri.co.jp / +81-90-6013-6276 このメールには、本来の宛先の方のみに限定された機密情報が含まれている場合がございます。お心あたりのない場合は、誠に申し訳ございませんが、送信者までお知らせ頂き、また受信されたメールは削除してくださいますようお願い申し上げます。 PLEASE READ :This e-mail is confidential and intended for the named recipient only. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail. ________________________________ 差出人: OAuth <oauth-boun...@ietf.org> (Joseph Heenan <jos...@authlete.com> の代理) 送信日時: 木曜日, 11月 29, 2018 5:19 午後 宛先: oauth 件名: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Client Registration with Native Apps Hi all, It’s worth adding that a per-instance dynamic registration of a native client can still imply a higher level of trust than a public client and registration isn’t necessarily unauthenticated. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7591 defines an “initial access token”: OAuth 2.0 access token optionally issued by an authorization server to a developer or client and used to authorize calls to the client registration endpoint. The type and format of this token are likely service specific and are out of scope for this specification. The means by which the authorization server issues this token as well as the means by which the registration endpoint validates this token are out of scope for this specification. Use of an initial access token is required when the authorization server limits the parties that can register a client. This can be used [for example] to bind a client to a specific user, though the bootstrapping can be a little involved and potentially the bootstrapping still has weaknesses. Use of white box crypto (or other tools like device attestations) can potentially also bring dynamically registered native apps up to a sufficiently trusted level. Joseph On 29 Nov 2018, at 14:02, Christian Mainka <Christian.Mainka=40rub...@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:Christian.Mainka=40rub...@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: Hi, thanks for pointing this out! This was exactly what confused us during reading - the main threat we see and which is not addressed is related to the app impersonation attack. Even PKCE does not help against the app impersonation attack. So a "Native App + Dynamic Client Registration" can be seen at a different "confidentiality level" than a "public client", because every native App can dynamically register itself on the IdP. The IdP cannot distinguish, for example, an honest native client from an malicious client starting an app impersonation attack. We agree that, e.g., a leaked code cannot be redeemed unless you have the respective client_id/client_secret. But... we asked ourselfs, in which cases does a code leak? 1) In the front-channel. In this case, it is true that no client credentials leak and an attacker cannot redeem the code. 2) In the back-channel. But if this channel is insecure, you directly get client credentials (unless client_secret_jwt is used as pointed out by George). So, Dynamic Client Registration only helps if the code leaks alone (as in 1.), or if it leaks on different levels (e.g. logfiles). On the opposite site, if Dynamic Registration is available, an attacker can very easily do an app impersonation attack by registering on the IdP. To be clear, it is not "impersonation" as in the "one secret per software" scenario, because different client_id and client_secret is used, but to the best of my knowledge, the IdP cannot distinguish between an honest app and an app impersonation client that has simply registered. In addition, if the IdP supports the dynamic client registration: How can the IdP distinguish between confidential and public/native clients? With respect to the consent page, which must be shown every time for native apps, this is an important issue, which should be addressed properly. Best Regards Vladi/Christian Am 29.11.18 um 00:38 schrieb Richard Backman, Annabelle: It should be noted that “traditional” confidential clients with registered return URLs and server-side secrets may provide a higher degree of confidence in the true identity of the client that doesn’t carry over to confidential native app clients. A native app instance’s registration call is necessarily unauthenticated (for the same reasons that statically registered native app clients are public clients), so the Client Impersonation concerns described in section 8.6 of RFC8252<https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8252#section-8.6><https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8252#section-8.6> still apply. -- Annabelle Richard Backman AWS Identity From: OAuth <oauth-boun...@ietf.org><mailto:oauth-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of Filip Skokan <panva...@gmail.com><mailto:panva...@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 9:11 AM To: George Fletcher <gffle...@aol.com><mailto:gffle...@aol.com> Cc: oauth <oauth@ietf.org><mailto:oauth@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Dynamic Client Registration with Native Apps Apologies, I missed the issued in "issued a shared secret", just reading "shared secret" alone is the exact opposite of a per-instance secret. The rest is clear and as you say it brings the benefit of the secret never being sent over the wire (except during the initial registration via TLS). Best, Filip On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 6:03 PM George Fletcher <gffle...@aol.com<mailto:gffle...@aol.com><mailto:gffle...@aol.com><mailto:gffle...@aol.com>> wrote: It's "confidential" in that the shared secret is unique to that app instance registration (as Dennis described in his response). If an attacker gets my phone and compromises the data stored on my device, they only get the secret for my device. This is no different than a server side client having their client secret compromised through an attack (and in some ways is better because it's instance specific). The main point I was trying to make, is that the 'client_secret_jwt' method allows the client to never send the shared secret across the wire as is created in the default OAuth2 HTTP Basic Authentication method. Thanks, George On 11/28/18 11:03 AM, Filip Skokan wrote: Hi George, #2 doesn't seem confidential, it's still a secret shared amongst installations and anyone reverse engineering the apk, extracting the secret, can form the client_secret_jwt client_assertion with it just fine. Best, Filip On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 4:48 PM George Fletcher <gffletch=40aol....@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:gffletch=40aol....@dmarc.ietf.org><mailto:40aol....@dmarc.ietf.org><mailto:40aol....@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: In addition, a few additional patterns are enabled... 1. The native app can generate a public/private key pair and then use private_secret_jwt as the client credential validation method via the client credentials flow (defined in OpenID Connect). 2. Maybe more simply, if the native app is issued a shared secret, the app can use client_secret_jwt method for client authentication which ensures the shared secret never leaves the device. (Again defined in the OpenID Connect spec). 3. Once the native app instance has credentials, they can be used for additional securing of app API transactions in addition to just the OAuth2/OpenID Connect flows. Thanks, George On 11/27/18 3:28 PM, William Denniss wrote: If the secret is dynamically provisioned then you have a confidential client. Anyone reverse engineering their own installation of the native app would only extract their own client's credentials, as opposed to the shared secret of all installations. Having a confidential client means that requests to the token endpoint (code, refresh) are client authenticated, so PKCE wouldn't be needed. On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:44 AM, Christian Mainka <Christian.Mainka=40rub...@dmarc.ietf..org<mailto:Christian.Mainka=40rub...@dmarc.ietf..org><mailto:Christian.Mainka=40rub...@dmarc.ietf.org><mailto:Christian.Mainka=40rub...@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: Hi, we just stumbled upon this [1] statement: "Except when using a mechanism like Dynamic Client Registration [RFC7591] to provision per-instance secrets, native apps are classified as public clients ..." What does this mean for us? Native App + Dynamic Client Registration = Confidential Client? Which threats are covered if Dynamic Client Registration is used on Native Apps? Best Regards, Vladi/Christian [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8252#section-8.4 -- Dr.-Ing. Christian Mainka Horst Görtz Institute for IT-Security Chair for Network and Data Security Ruhr-University Bochum, Germany Universitätsstr. 150, ID 2/463 D-44801 Bochum, Germany Telefon: +49 (0) 234 / 32-26796 Fax: +49 (0) 234 / 32-14347 http://nds.rub.de/chair/people/cmainka/ @CheariX _______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org<mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth _______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org<mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth _______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org<mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth _______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org<mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org><mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth<https://www..ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth><https://www..ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth> _______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org<mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth -- Dr.-Ing. Christian Mainka Horst Görtz Institute for IT-Security Chair for Network and Data Security Ruhr-University Bochum, Germany Universitätsstr. 150, ID 2/463 D-44801 Bochum, Germany Telefon: +49 (0) 234 / 32-26796 Fax: +49 (0) 234 / 32-14347 http://nds.rub.de/chair/people/cmainka/ @CheariX _______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org<mailto:OAuth@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
_______________________________________________ OAuth mailing list OAuth@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
