Inline > On Mar 1, 2016, at 5:51 AM, Vladimir Dzhuvinov <vladi...@connect2id.com> > wrote: > > Hi John, > > On 28/02/16 01:15, John Bradley wrote: >> If the malicious client is registering it’s own redirect URI then option A >> won’t help. >> >> On the other hand the Good AS should identify the malicious client to the >> user. > > How could that be done in practice, especially with an AS that provides > a channel for dynamic discovery and registration? > Yes that is the question. I think client impersonation by lying to the AS when registering a client as part of a phishing attack is going to become more common.
Getting a trusted AS to say you are Tripit or some trusted client when you are really a bad guy is becoming a real problem. This is however not directly connected to the client mix up issue, and needs to be addressed separately. One thing we added to dynamic client registration was a software statement that can lock down redirect URI for a given client. In the case of Mobile Connect for Mobile network operators the proposal is to have a trusted registration authority that validates clients and issues them software statements to register at individual AS. Validating the developer/client will probably need to be a business process, more stringent than just getting a developer account based on an email address. One possibility might be to check if the redirect URI has a EV certificate indicating the organization, or trust frameworks set up to register clients for conformance with European data protection laws (yes with safe harbour going away something like that might be required by AS to keep on the good side of the law. Germany did take a run at this once, but it did not work for the internet in a practical way) The biggest issue will probably be identifying native apps. Custom scheme redirects are not real useful. On iOS and Android(beta) there are now ways for an app to claim a https: URI that is controlled by the developer. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-native-apps-00#page-9 That in combination with software statements might be a useful way to identify the client and display something useful at the AS. We need to do more work on this in my opinion. John B. >> I think this is a separate problem of client impersonation being used for >> Phishing. >> >> This is really a case of bad guy registers client and phishes the user to >> login pretending to be some other client. >> >> That can all be done with the good client not being involved at all. > > OK. > > Vladimir > > >> >> John B. >> >>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 1:16 PM, Vladimir Dzhuvinov <vladi...@connect2id.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brian, >>> >>> On 27/02/16 00:27, Brian Campbell wrote: >>>> My preference is for Option A. >>>> >>>> The mix-up attack, in all it's variations, relies on there being no means >>>> in OAuth for the AS to identify itself to the client when it returns the >>>> user's browser to the client's redirect_uri. 'OAuth 2.0 Mix-Up Mitigation' >>>> addresses that fundamental missing piece by including the 'iss' >>>> authorization response parameter. >>> This fundamental piece is indeed missing. I'm not sure measure "A" can >>> also cover dynamic discovery and registration though. The mixup attack >>> was originally described there, with OpenID Connect. >>> >>> How about this variation: >>> >>> Suppose the malicious IdP: >>> >>> 1. Registers the client under attack for >>> a) malicious authz endpoint >>> b) malicious token endpoint (optional) >>> >>> ... while also acting as proxy, where there are two variants: >>> a) repeats the client registration with the honest IdP to obtain >>> client_id + credentials that it keeps for itself; or >>> b) is already registered as a client with the honest IdP >>> >>> Then: >>> >>> 1. When the authz request is made to the malicious authz endpoint, the >>> request is rewritten with the client_id and redirect_uri which the >>> malicious IdP has with the honest IdP. The state may or may not be replaced. >>> >>> 2. The browser is then given a second redirect with the rewritten >>> parameters to the authz endpoint of the honest IdP. >>> >>> 3. The user doesn't notice this double redirect, and logs in / gives >>> consent. >>> >>> 4. The honest IdP sends the browser back to the registered malicious >>> redirect_uri. The attacker receives the code or tokens (depending on the >>> response type) >>> >>> 5. A second redirect is made back to the redirect_uri of the client, >>> with rewritten state, iss, client_id >>> >>> >>> What is your take on this? >>> >>> The ideal fix for me would be one that covers dynamic discovery and >>> registration as well. I'm not convinced option A does that. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Vladimir >>> >>>> During the course of the discussions in Darmstadt Hans and I independently >>>> implemented and successfully interop tested the 'iss' and 'client_id' >>>> authorization response parameters, which is what was anticipated to be in >>>> the mitigation draft. Doing so was very simple and straightforward. And it >>>> addresses the vulnerability. We decided, unfortunately, to pull that >>>> functionality out of a looming a product release due to the churn in this >>>> WG and the perceived risk of changes in what would eventually become the >>>> standard solution. Of course, that kind of risk is always present with >>>> draft standards but it's been very frustrating in this case to have worked >>>> towards a simple solution to a known problem only to have progress get hung >>>> up in lack of agreement in this WG. >>>> >>>> I'll also say that in many/most cases the AS doesn't explicitly know all of >>>> the resources that tokens it issues can or will be used at (and there are >>>> often more than one). So the ruri/Resource URI parameter isn't really a >>>> workable option. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Hannes Tschofenig < >>>> hannes.tschofe...@gmx.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Vladimir, >>>>> >>>>> yes, we could do a formal analysis and it would be a very good idea. >>>>> It would even go faster if a few of us work together on it. Anyone >>>>> interested? >>>>> >>>>> This would be a good contribution for the workshop in July, btw. >>>>> >>>>> Ciao >>>>> Hannes >>>>> >>>>> On 02/23/2016 10:09 AM, Vladimir Dzhuvinov wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> You mention that you spent considerable time in research. I wonder if >>>>>> there is existing theory, in communications or information theory, that >>>>>> can be used to formally establish and prove (or disprove) the security >>>>>> of the proposed OAuth measures? Perhaps some work that is totally >>>>>> unrelated to identity and the web protocols, but could well apply here? >>>>>> >>>>>> My reasoning is that we have a closed system that is fairly simple, so >>>>>> formal analysis must be entirely possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. We have 5 parties (client, AS, RS, user, user agent). >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. The OAuth protocol follows a simple and well-defined pattern of >>>>>> messages between the parties. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. The points and the number of ways by which an adversary may break >>>>>> into OAuth must therefore be finite. >>>>>> >>>>>> 4. The security requirement is essentially to guarantee the precedence >>>>>> and authenticity of the messages from discovery endpoint to RS, and the >>>>>> preferred way to do that is by establishing a binding between the >>>>>> messages, which can be forward or backward binding. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Right now the WG concern is whether all possible attacks have been >>>>>> recognised, and then taken care of. If we can have a formal model that >>>>>> can reliably reveal and prove that, this will be a huge breakthrough. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Vladimir >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20/02/16 12:41, Mike Jones wrote: >>>>>>> Suggesting that they be read is of course, the right long-term >>>>> approach. But as someone who spent 20+ years as a researcher before >>>>> switching to digital identity, I was sensitive to not wanting to upstage >>>>> their work by copying too much of their material into our draft before >>>>> their publications were widely known. I'll of course commit to working >>>>> the >>>>> researchers and the working group to create a self-contained concise >>>>> description of the threats and mitigations in the working group document. >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> -- Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:hannes.tschofe...@gmx.net] >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 2:25 AM >>>>>>> To: Mike Jones <michael.jo...@microsoft.com>; William Denniss < >>>>> wdenn...@google.com>; Phil Hunt (IDM) <phil.h...@oracle.com> >>>>>>> Cc: oauth@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fixing the Authorization Server Mix-Up: Call >>>>> for Adoption >>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 02/20/2016 10:52 AM, Mike Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> Have you read both of their publications? If not, do yourself a favor >>>>>>>> and do. They're actually both very readable and quite informative. >>>>>>> I have read both documents. In context of this discussion the question >>>>> is whether we >>>>>>> (a) require them to be read (in which case they should be a normative >>>>> reference), or >>>>>>> (b) suggest them to be read (since they provide additional background >>>>> information). In this case they are an informative reference. >>>>>>> I believe believe we want (b) for the OAuth WG document. While I >>>>> encourage everyone to read the publications I also believe that there is >>>>> lots of material in there that goes beyond the information our audience >>>>> typically reads (such as the text about the formal analysis). >>>>>>> There is probably also a middle-ground where we either copy relevant >>>>> text from the papers into the draft or reference specific sections that >>>>> are >>>>> "must-read". >>>>>>> One other issue: I actually thought that the threat that is outlined in >>>>> the research paper is sufficiently well described but the second threat, >>>>> which is called 'cut-and-paste attack', requires more work. >>>>>>> I noted this in my summary mail to the list, see >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg15697.html >>>>>>> Ciao >>>>>>> Hannes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> OAuth mailing list >>>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OAuth mailing list >>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OAuth mailing list >>>>> OAuth@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OAuth mailing list >>> OAuth@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
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