Inline.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 1:34 PM
> To: Pankaj Garg <[email protected]>
> Cc: Dino Farinacci <[email protected]>; Manish Kumar (manishkr)
> <[email protected]>; Lucy Yong <[email protected]>;
> [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [nvo3] RFC 7637 on NVGRE: Network Virtualization Using
> Generic Routing Encapsulation
> 
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Pankaj Garg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Inline.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 12:55 PM
> >> To: Pankaj Garg <[email protected]>
> >> Cc: Dino Farinacci <[email protected]>; Manish Kumar (manishkr)
> >> <[email protected]>; Lucy Yong <[email protected]>;
> [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] RFC 7637 on NVGRE: Network Virtualization Using
> >> Generic Routing Encapsulation
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Pankaj Garg <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Inline.
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 12:25 PM
> >> >> To: Pankaj Garg <[email protected]>
> >> >> Cc: Dino Farinacci <[email protected]>; Manish Kumar (manishkr)
> >> >> <[email protected]>; Lucy Yong <[email protected]>;
> >> [email protected]
> >> >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] RFC 7637 on NVGRE: Network Virtualization
> >> >> Using Generic Routing Encapsulation
> >> >>
> >> >> > A key limitation that prevents software from using extensions is
> >> >> > NIC
> >> >> offloads. Both Geneve and VXLAN-GPE+NSH allows extension of these
> >> >> protocols without breaking NIC offloads.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you describe why you think this is? Both Geneve and VXLAN-
> >> GPE+NSH
> >> >> are not usable with most implementations of checksum offloads and
> >> >> probably TSO. As we demonstrated in GUE it is possible to offload
> >> >> encapsulated checksums by enabling the other UDP checksum and
> >> >> using the remote checksum offload option (which we also
> >> >> implemented for
> >> VXLAN).
> >> > [PG] We can define newer TLVs and extend Geneve or NSH without
> >> breaking NIC offloads. NIC has to support Geneve/NSH offload in the
> >> first place, but after that we can safely extend using TLVs as needed
> >> without dealing with NIC offload changes etc. This includes the range
> >> of offload from Checksum, LSO, LRO, VMQ, RSS etc.
> >>
> >> Okay, you are assuming that we would go out an buy NICs that
> >> specifically support these protocols in the first place. My belief is
> >> that if NIC vendors implement generic offload mechanisms it is a far
> >> a better route and could support a multitude of encapsulation
> >> protocols (see
> > [PG] It is up to hardware vendors to decide how to optimally and/or
> generically do this in hardware, but from software interface perspective,
> there is non-trivial amount of work that needs to be done for each new
> offload. It took significant time to get NVGRE and VXLAN offloads working
> correctly. We don't want to go through that pain, at least not unless we
> _have_ to and that is the promise of NSH and Geneve. If we can build a
> generic interface for offloads that NICs implement, that would be great as
> well, but I am skeptical of the viability of that given the variation in 
> formats of
> various protocols.
> 
> The generic interfaces already exists. Please look at my paper on UDP
> encapsulation. We have simple well defined interfaces to handle four of the
> five basic NIC offloads in a generic way (RX csum, TX csum, RSS, and LSO). The
> fifth, LRO, would require NIC support per protocol but it's pretty
> straightforward to make a software cognate for that (but LRO has it own
> problems anyway...). This applies to VXLAN, GUE, geneve, MPLS/UDP,
> GRE/UDP, IP/UDP and whatever new encapsulations we would dream up.

[PG] Yes I plan to read it, it looks pretty interesting paper, appreciate the 
link.

> 
> Tom
> 
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fpeople.
> >> netfilter.org%2fpablo%2fnetdev0.1%2fpapers%2fUDP-Encapsulation-in-
> >>
> Linux.pdf&data=01%7c01%7cpankajg%40microsoft.com%7cc9ceeee9e5f6433
> >>
> 9c07c08d2e09ad904%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=MS
> >> vIxq6ldUFWP5v0g%2foPBZuC95iJYWPHfirUdYeA%2bPQ%3d).
> > [PG] I haven't read this fully yet, but will read it sometime.
> >>
> >> As for "safely extend using TLVs" have you actually verified that
> >> works with HW, performance is unaffected, and this does not create
> >> new vectors of DOS attacks? (Given the unmitigated disappointment
> >> with IP options I'm very skeptical of and deployment of TLVs at L3 or
> >> below in the data center.)
> > [PG] We have not tested it but maybe some IHVs who are supporting
> Geneve (or NSH) offload can comment. I have no technical evidence,
> though, as to why it would _not_ work (sans some implementation
> constraints on maximum header size etc, which is pretty reasonable).
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Tom
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