Marc,

Getting a revision out next week sounds good. It would be good to get
this one out of the WG.

Thomas

> The -04 version which includes editorial comments received so far is
> ready.  The draft did not get posted in time (i.e. before the
> deadline) because of some late editorial suggestions.

> Hence, the draft will get posted next week when the filing window
> gets open again.  I will address your comments at that time.

> Thanks,
> Marc


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> > Behalf Of Thomas Narten
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 4:02 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [nvo3] draft-ietf-nvo3-framework-03.txt
> > 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > What is the status of this document? It doesn't seem to have 
> > been revised since July, despite being "almost done" in 
> > Berlin. Can the authors please comment on what is holding 
> > this document back?
> > 
> > I went back and reviewed the -03 version and found some 
> > things that should be cleaned up before sending to the IESG. 
> > But all the changes are editorial and should be 
> > straightforward to make (see below).
> > 
> > Thomas
> > 
> > 2013-10-29: Review of -03
> > 
> > Now that document is going to IESG, abstract should be redone 
> > to reflect what the document actually contains.
> > 
> > >     8. Acknowledgments
> > 
> > This section needs updating to properly give credit.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >     1.1. Conventions used in this document
> > > 
> > >        The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", 
> > "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", 
> > >        "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and 
> > "OPTIONAL" in this 
> > >        document are to be interpreted as described in 
> > RFC-2119 [RFC2119].  
> > > 
> > >        In this document, these words will appear with that 
> > interpretation   
> > >        only when in ALL CAPS. Lower case uses of these 
> > words are not to be    
> > >        interpreted as carrying RFC-2119 significance. 
> > 
> > These definitions don't actually make sense in this document. 
> > The framework is not a specification, so things like
> > 
> >   1. MUST   This word, or the terms "REQUIRED" or "SHALL", 
> > mean that the
> >      definition is an absolute requirement of the specification.
> > 
> > don't really make sense. That said, if you search for upper 
> > case words, the document doesn't really use them (I find one 
> > SHOULD). Why not just lower case everything and remove Section 1.1?
> > 
> > >        Network Virtualization Edge (NVE). An NVE is the 
> > network entity that 
> > >        sits at the edge of an underlay network and 
> > implements L2 and/or L3 
> > >        network virtualization functions. The network-facing 
> > side of the NVE 
> > >        uses the underlying L3 network to tunnel frames to and from 
> > > other
> > 
> > /frames/Tenant System frames/ ?
> > 
> > >        protocol (and address family) from that of the 
> > overlay. In the case 
> > >        of NVO3, the underlay network is typically IP. 
> > 
> > s/is typically IP/will be IP/
> > 
> > (NVO3 is only doing overlays across an IP underlay)
> > 
> > >        Virtual Access Points (VAPs): Tenant Systems are 
> > connected to VNIs 
> > >        through VAPs. VAPs can be physical ports or virtual 
> > ports identified 
> > >        through logical interface identifiers (e.g., VLAN 
> > ID, internal 
> > >        vSwitch Interface ID connected to a VM). 
> > 
> > This could be clearer that the VAP is on the NVE side (as 
> > opposed to the TSI).
> > 
> > Better:
> > 
> >        Virtual Access Points (VAPs): A logical connection point on the
> >        NVE for connecting a Tenant System to a virtual network. Tenant
> >        Systems connect to VNIs at an NVE through VAPs. VAPs can be
> >        physical ports or virtual ports identified through logical
> >        interface identifiers (e.g., VLAN ID, internal vSwitch
> >        Interface ID connected to a VM).
> > 
> > >        Network Virtualization Authority (NVA): Entity that provides 
> > >        reachability and forwarding information to NVEs. An 
> > NVA is also 
> > >        known as a controller.  
> > 
> > Drop the last sentence? Term "controller" means different 
> > things to different people and I don't think it's approriate 
> > to equate NVA with controller.
> > 
> > >        The NVE implements network virtualization functions 
> > that allow for 
> > >        L2 and/or L3 tenant separation.
> > 
> > It does more than "allow for" it provides that service...
> > 
> > Better:
> > 
> >         The NVE implements the network virtualization functions
> >         corresponding to the L2 or L3 service being provided.
> > 
> > Or, just drop the sentence entirely - its not clear why this 
> > sentence is included here (we've said the above before).
> > 
> > >        Underlay nodes utilize L3 technologies to 
> > interconnect NVE nodes. 
> > >        These nodes perform forwarding based on outer L3 
> > header information, 
> > >        and generally do not maintain per tenant-service 
> > state albeit some 
> > >        applications (e.g., multicast) may require control plane or 
> > >        forwarding plane information that pertain to a 
> > tenant, group of 
> > >        tenants, tenant service or a set of services that 
> > belong to one or 
> > >        more tenants. When such tenant or tenant-service 
> > related information 
> > >        is maintained in the underlay, mechanisms to control that 
> > >        information should be provided.
> > 
> > I think its inaccurate to imply that when the underlay uses 
> > IP multicast, it has "tenant state".
> > 
> > Better:
> > 
> >         Underlay nodes utilize L3 technologies to interconnect NVE
> >         nodes.  These nodes perform forwarding based on outer L3
> >         header information, and generally do not need to know anything
> >         about the tenant traffic they are carrying. The case of tenant
> >         multicast/broadcast may be a slight exception. One way to
> >         implement tenant multicast/broadcast is to map the tenant
> >         broadcast/multicast group into an IP multicast group on the
> >         underlay. In such cases, tenant multicast would be sent on the
> >         underlay using the underlay's native IP multicast
> >         capability. In some sense, per-tenant information is being
> >         used in the underlay. But because the underlay is using
> >         normal IP functionality, the underlay does not need to know
> >         the details about the multi-tenancy it is supporting.
> > 
> > Or, just drop the talk about the underlay having per tenant state.
> > 
> > >        Virtual Network Instance (VNI): A specific instance of a VN. 
> > 
> > This definition is not consistent with how VNI is used within 
> > this document. Later, VNI refers to a way to reference a VN on *one*
> > *single* NVE.
> > 
> > Better:
> > 
> >         Virtual Network Instance (VNI): A specific instance of a VN
> >         from the perspective of an NVE.
> > 
> > >     2.3. NVE Service Types
> > > 
> > >        NVE components may be used to provide different 
> > types of virtualized 
> > >        network services. This section defines the service types and 
> > >        associated attributes. Note that an NVE may be 
> > capable of providing 
> > >        both L2 and L3 services. 
> > 
> > Replace first sentence with:
> > 
> > An NVE provides virtualized network services to Tenant Systems.
> > 
> > >        Once the VN context identifier is added to the 
> > frame, a L3 Tunnel 
> > >        encapsulation is used to transport the frame to the 
> > destination NVE. 
> > >        The underlay devices do not usually keep any per 
> > service state, 
> > >        simply forwarding the frames based on the outer 
> > tunnel header. 
> > 
> > why "usually?"
> > 
> > Better something like: "does not need to keep ..."
> > 
> > >        may be configured or dynamically established. 
> > Solutions SHOULD
> > 
> > s/SHOULD/should/
> > 
> > >        stateless. In this document, however, tunneling and 
> > tunneling 
> > >        encapsulation are used interchangeably to simply mean the 
> > >        encapsulation of a tenant packet with a tunneling 
> > header necessary 
> > >        to deliver the packet between an ingress NVE and an 
> > egress NVE
> > 
> > s/to deliver/to carry/
> > 
> > >           o Decoupling of the overlay addresses (MAC and 
> > IP) used by VMs 
> > >             from the underlay network for tenant separation 
> > and separation 
> > >             of the tenant address spaces and the underlay 
> > address space. 
> > 
> > s/and the underlay/from the underlay/
> > 
> > >        Overlay networks also create several challenges: 
> > > 
> > >           o Overlay networks have no controls of underlay 
> > networks and lack 
> > >             critical underlay network information
> > > 
> > 
> > Not sure what that last point is trying to say. Either clarify (give
> > an example?) or delete. It is not right to say "lack critical
> > information" without saying what this really means. This is just hand
> > waving.
> > 
> > >                o Overlay networks and/or their associated 
> > management 
> > >                  entities typically probe the network to 
> > measure link or 
> > >                  path properties, such as available 
> > bandwidth or packet 
> > >                  loss rate. It is difficult to accurately 
> > evaluate network 
> > >                  properties. It might be preferable for the 
> > underlay 
> > >                  network to expose usage and performance 
> > information. 
> > 
> > Indention seems off here. Also, where does the "typically" come from?
> > This implies it is standard practice today. Is it?
> > 
> > >        In this section, we will only consider the case of 
> > an IP overlay. 
> > 
> > Remove? NVO3 only addresses IP overlays.
> > 
> > >           . Avoiding packets from reaching the wrong NVI, 
> > especially during 
> > >             VM moves. 
> > s/Avoiding/Preventing/
> > 
> > Nits:
> > 
> > >        NVO3 Network: An overlay network that provides an 
> > Layer2 (L2) or 
> > >        Layer3 (L3) service to Tenant Systems over an L3 
> > underlay network, 
> > 
> > s/,//
> > 
> > >        End Device: A physical device that connects directly 
> > to the DC 
> > >        Underlay Network. This is in contrast to a tenant 
> > system, which 
> > >        connects to a corresponding tenant VN. An End Device 
> > is administered 
> > 
> > s/tenant system/Tenant System/
> > 
> > 
> > >             swicthes are usually multi-homed to aggregation 
> > switches in the 
> > 
> > spell
> > 
> > >        L2 NVE implements Ethernet LAN emulation, an Ethernet based 
> > 
> > s/L2/An L2/
> > 
> > >        L3 NVE provides Virtualized IP forwarding service, 
> > similar from a 
> > 
> > s/L3/An L3/
> > 
> > s/similar from/similar to/
> > 
> > >        A VNI is a specific VN instance on a NVE. Each VNI defines a 
> > 
> > s/a NVE/an NVE/
> > 
> > >        Once the VN context identifier is added to the 
> > frame, a L3 Tunnel 
> > 
> > s/a L3/an/ L3/
> > 
> > >        across the underlay (e.g., IP tunneling over an IP underlay. 
> > 
> > s/underlay/underlay)/
> > 
> > >           o Classical ICMP-based MTU Path Discovery 
> > [RFC1191] [RFC1981] 
> > > 
> > >                o 
> > >                 Tenant Systems rely on ICMP messages to 
> > discover the MTU of 
> > >                  the end-to-end path to its destination. 
> > This method is not 
> > >                  always possible, such as when traversing 
> > middle boxes 
> > >                  (e.g. firewalls) which disable ICMP for 
> > security reasons 
> > > 
> > 
> > formatting issue...
> > 
> > >        Nvo3 solutions must at least consider and address 
> > the following: 
> > 
> > s/Nvo3/NVO3/ Indeed, go through document and use consistent spelling
> > (I find nvo3 as well)
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nvo3 mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
> > 

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