Hi David,

Glad to see joining the discussion. I modify the subject a bit before we reach 
the consensus.
Please see inline.

From: Black, David [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:45 AM
To: Lucy yong
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

Subject: Multi-subnet VNs - not a new service type

Hi Lucy,

I’m going back to the original question of whether we need a new service type, 
and starting from a couple of comments from you on how the proposed new L2-3 
service works ...

> But a frame from TS have both Ethernet and IP header. From TS perspective,
> the frame to the TS on the same subnet will be bridged, the frame to the
> TS on the different subnet goes to the router. We need to a service to
> guarantee that.

> TS send a frame to the destination directly if it is on the same subnet and
> send a frame to the gateway if the destination of the frame is not on the 
> same subnet.

I observe that these describe exactly how the currently-defined L2 service 
works - bridge the frame to the L2 destination, and route it beyond there if 
the L2 destination happens to be an L3 router.
[Lucy] Yes, you state correct. How does a tenant system to know the MAC of a 
router? It uses arp protocol and L2  service is transparent to arp protocol. 
What this lead to that even two TSes in the different subnets attaches the same 
NVE, the traffic between two has to be routed via an L3 router. If you choose 
to have a lot of routers and push the router function close to NVE for a tenant 
network, this problem is not a problem. However, this will make operator 
nightmare because you have to configure many L2 and L3 services. Second, this 
also require both L2 and L3 interworking mechanism on TS mobility.
 Beyond that, the discussion around where the router is located and whether 
it’s distributed among multiple nodes, e.g., NVEs, is an implementation 
discussion, not a service definition discussion. To be specific, just spreading 
such a router (e.g., default gateway) across the NVEs need change the service 
that is provided; please see VRRP for a worked example of this sort of 
distribution, and VRRP does not change the service definition in the sense that 
nvo3 is using the term “service”.
[Lucy] Do you say “need change” or “not need change” here? IMO: if using 
distributed routing, it is very different from designated routers design. Both 
are very useful for the operator, and it would be nice to distinguish two in 
overlay.

I also think that the provisioning topic is a red herring:
[Lucy] what do you think about SDN?

> Without it [new service type], it means that, for creating a tenant virtual 
> network that
> contains multiple subnets, operators have to create individual layer 2
> overlays and layer 3 overlay and specify the interfaces to interconnect them, 
> etc.
That really does not require a new service type.  Rather, a single sentence 
ought to suffice to state that orchestration functionality (e.g., software) may 
provision multiple virtual networks as part of a single larger provisioning 
operation.
[Lucy] optimizing operation is attractive for operators.

In contrast, there may be a new service type in the discussion of “route before 
bridge” because when traffic can be bridged at L2, routing that traffic at L3 
may remove L2 adjacency information, and the discussion of use of EVPN for 
traffic that suffers from that removal then follows.  I would hope that this 
topic can be deferred in the same fashion that (I hope) non-transitive L2 
connectivity (e.g., L2 stations A and B are in VN 1, stations B and C are in VN 
2, A can talk to B, B can talk to C, but A can’t talk directly to C at L2) has 
been deferred.
[Lucy] this is the hub-spoke. Why do we need to defer this?

Lucy

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
[email protected]        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

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