"Just following orders..."
________________________________ From: Sam Moats <s...@circlenet.us> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 7:30 AM Subject: RE: The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take it back +1 I couldn't have said it any better. Sam On 2013-09-06 10:27, Naslund, Steve wrote: > The error in this whole conversation is that you cannot "take it > back" as an engineer. You do not own it. You are like an architect > or carpenter and are no more responsible for how it is used than the > architect is responsible that the building he designed is being used > as a crack house. Do Ford engineers have a "social contract" to > ensure that I do not run over squirrels with my Explorer, will they > "take it back" if I do so? The whole "social contract" argument is > ridiculous. You have a contract (or most likely an "at will" > agreement") with your employer to build what they want and operate it > in the way that they want you to. If it is against your ethics to do > so, quit. The companies that own the network have a fiduciary > responsibility to their investors and a responsibility to serve their > customers. If anyone is really that bent out of shape by the NSA > tactics (and I am not so sure they are given the lack of political > backlash) here is what you can do. > > In the United States there are two main centers of power that can > affect these policies, the consumer and the voter. > > 1. We vote in a new executive branch every four years. They control > and appoint the NSA director. Vote them out if you don't like how > they run things. Do you think a President wants to maintain power? > Of course they do and they will change a policy that will get them > tossed out (if enough people actually care). > > 2. The Congress passes the laws that govern telecom and intelligence > gathering. They also have the power to impeach and/or prosecute the > executive branch for misdeeds. They will pass any law or do whatever > it takes to keep themselves in power. Again this requires a lot of > public pressure. > > 3. The companies that are consenting to monitoring (legal or > illegal) are stuck between two powers. The federal government's power > to regulate them and the investors / consumers they serve. Apparently > they are more scared of the government even though the consumer can > put them out of business overnight by simply not using their product > any more. If everyone cancelled their gmail accounts, stopped using > Google search, and stopped paying for Google placement and ads, their > stock would go to zero nearly overnight. Again, no one seems to care > about the issue enough to do this because I have seen no appreciable > backlash against these companies. > > If a social contract exists at all in the United States, it would be > to hold your government and the companies you do business with to your > ethical standards. Another things to remember is that the NSA > engineers were probably acting under their "social contract" to defend > the United States from whatever enemies they are trying to monitor and > also felt they were doing the "right thing". The problem with "social > contracts" is that they are relative. > > As far as other countries are concerned, you can affect their > policies as well. US carriers are peered with and provide transit to > Chinese companies. If the whole world is that outraged with what they > do, they just need to pressure the companies they do business with not > to do business with China. > > Steven Naslund > Chicago IL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Amodio [mailto:jmamo...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:51 AM > To: NANOG > Subject: Re: The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to > take it back > >> > The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take it back > >> > > >> > >> > Who is we ? >> >> If you bothered to read the 1st paragraph you would know. >> > > I read all of it, the original article and other references to it. > > IMHO, there is no amount of engineering that can fix stupid people > doing stupid things on both sides of the stupid lines. > > By trying to fix what is perceived an engineering issue (seems that > China doing the same or worse for many years wasn't an engineering > problem) the only result you will obtain is a budget increase on the > counter-engineering efforts, that may represent a big chunk of money > that can be used in more effective ways where it is really needed. > > My .02 > -J
