Yeah, I guess Cisco IOS isn't that good an example of a consistent syntax.
Others do it better - Junos sets the ASN with the 'routing-options
autonomous-system' command, and TiMOS uses 'router autonomous-system'
My rant wasn't about having to deal with new CLIs but about the lack of CLIs in
those devices that seem to prefer menu based UIs (text or web), and CLIs that
have nasty commands. Check this out:
add flow fid-5-5 EVC-30600-Data codefault enable multi swap 99968000 100032000
1024 1024 5000 ctag push 15-0 stag none
Now what does that string of numbers mean? It's the Adva 825 way of specifying
the CIR and EIR for a flow but I can never remember what each position
represents.
Compare this to TiMOS:
sap-ingress 93 create
description "Test LNS"
queue 1 create
rate 2000
mbs 25 kilobytes
exit
This creates a queue with max rate 2000 kbit/s and a max burst size of 25 kB.
It's much easier to read than the Adva config, because each parameter is
labelled.
The Adva CLI isn't actually all that bad, but it's possible that had their
developers had some sort of usability guide when they wrote the OS then they
might have done things better.
I was hoping that there was already some sort of usability guide around that
could be shown to the manufacturers with a "please read this" note attached. Is
anyone aware of such a thing?
Jonathon.
From: Keegan Holley [mailto:keegan.hol...@sungard.com]
Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 4:12 p.m.
To: Jonathon Exley
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Network device command line interfaces
I may have a different opinion here, but I not sure I'd call any CLI easy to
work with. Cisco's training machine is so efficient that some learn IOS before
leaving high school, so the fact that we all consider IOS easy to work with is
relative. Just look at the "router" command. Most of us know that this is
cisco's way of enabling protocols, but I would hardly call this intuitive if I
didn't know it already. Then it's different for each protocol. So "router BGP
#" starts the BGP process and sets your local AS number (very important).
"router eigrp #" starts eigrp and sets a different AS number that doesn't
really count (also important). "router ospf #" just sets a process ID in case
you want to run multiple instances. There's also a config mode
autonomous-system command but that only counts if your running EGP which is
still in the CLI but isn't supported and doesn't start. Then there's all the
different things you can/must do with access-lists because they were too lazy
to code a different sort of filter. Remember CBAC? Did I mention this is the
CLI we like? I don't mind wrestling with a new CLI because it's all relative.
Most have read at least one cisco book and probably one juniper book so those
CLI's are considered standard and all their sins are forgiven. Most of us have
not gone through, training with extreme, enterasys, 3COM, netgear, foundry,
fortigate, etc. etc. etc. So those become the PITA CLI's and suddenly
non-standard commands and bad help menus become a crime again. I do find
text-based menus obnoxious, unless it's a linux box and the text menu is a
curses interface. In that case it's super-cool and I'm even willing to play
games with text based menus.
2011/11/23 Jonathon Exley
<jonathon.ex...@kordia.co.nz<mailto:jonathon.ex...@kordia.co.nz>>
Does anyone else despair at the CLIs produced by networking vendors?
Real routers use a CLI that is command based, like IOS, TiMOS or Junos. These
interfaces work well over low bandwidth connections (unlike web interfaces),
can work with config backup systems like RANCID, have a (mostly) consistent
structure and good show commands.
However vendors of low cost routers/switches/muxes seem to take a stab in the
dark and produce some really nasty stuff. I have a personal hate of text based
menus and binary config backup files.
Doe this p*** off anyone else? The business part of the company says "This
device is great! It's cheap and does everything." However the poor sap who is
given the task to make it work has to wrestle with a badly designed user
interface and illogical syntax.
Maybe the vendors need some sort of best practices guide for what manageability
features their kit needs to support to make them acceptable to the market. Does
anyone know if there is anything along these lines?
Jonathon.
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