Exactly what I was asking, when and how will we collectively turn off the lights on IPv4?
> -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jacques.latour=cira...@nanog.org> On > Behalf Of Mark Andrews > Sent: March 30, 2022 7:29 PM > To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> > Subject: [EXT] Re: IPv6 Only - was Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 > still not supported re: 202203261833.AYC > > Sites looking at the traffic they get and saying, you know what all our > customers connect to us over IPv6 with some of them also connecting over > IPv4. I think we can stop supporting IPv4 now. > > ISP’s saying this IPv4aaS isn’t getting much traffic anymore lets out source > it > for the few customers that are still using it. Lots of ISPs are well down the > path leading to this point by turning off IPv4 on the access networks. > > Home / enterprise networks. All my gear is IPv6 capable and supports > IPv4aaS for the few legacy > IPv4 sites I need to connect to. This is happening today. > > In the end almost all the IPv4 traffic with be with the third party IPv4aaS > providers and collectively they will decide to turn off the lights. > > > On 30 Mar 2022, at 07:53, Jacques Latour <jacques.lat...@cira.ca> wrote: > > > > So, in 25, 50 or 100 years from now, are we still going to be dual stack > IPv4/IPv6? > > When are we going to give up on IPv4? > > People can run IPv4 all they want inside their networks for 1000s of years. > > What will it take to be IPv6 only? > > > > 😊 > > > > From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jacques.latour=cira...@nanog.org> On > Behalf > > Of Owen DeLong via NANOG > > Sent: March 29, 2022 3:52 PM > > To: Abraham Y. Chen <ayc...@avinta.com> > > Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> > > Subject: [EXT] Re: Let's Focus on Moving Forward Re: V6 still not > > supported re: 202203261833.AYC > > > > Submit an Internet draft, same as any other IP related enhancement gets > introduced. > > > > What you’re really complaining about is that it’s been virtually impossible > to gain consensus to move anything IPv4 related forward in the IETF since at > least 2015. > > > > Well… It’s a consensus process. If your idea isn’t getting consensus, then > perhaps it’s simply that the group you are seeking consensus from doesn’t > like your idea. > > > > Your inability to convince the members of the various working groups that > your idea has merit isn’t necessarily a defect in the IETF process… It might > simply be a lack of merit in your ideas. > > > > Owen > > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2022, at 15:43 , Abraham Y. Chen <ayc...@avinta.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi, Justin: > > > > 1) "... no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4 ... ": > > After all > these discussions, are you still denying this basic issue? For example, there > has not been any straightforward way to introduce IPv4 enhancement ideas > to IETF since at least 2015. If you know the way, please make it public. I am > sure that many are eager to learn about it. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Abe (2022-03-26 18:42) > > > > > > > > > > On 2022-03-26 11:20, Justin Streiner wrote: > > While the Internet is intended to allow the free exchange of information, > the means of getting that information from place to place is and has to be > defined by protocols that are implemented in a consistent manner (see: BGP, > among many other examples). It's important to separate the ideas from the > plumbing. > > > > That said, no one is stopping anyone from working on IPv4, so what > personal freedoms are being impacted by working toward deploying IPv6, > with an eye toward sunsetting IPv4 in the future? > > > > Keep in mind that IPv4 started out as an experiment that found its way > into wider use. It's a classic case of a test deployment that suddenly > mutated into a production service. Why should we continue to expend > effort to perpetuate the sins of the past, rather work toward getting v6 into > wider use? > > > > Is IPv6 a perfect protocol? Absolutely not, but it addresses the key pain > point of IPv4 - address space exhaustion. > > > > Thank you > > jms > > > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 9:35 AM Abraham Y. Chen <ayc...@avinta.com> > wrote: > > > > 3) Re: Ur. Pts. 5) & 6): I believe that there is a philosophic / logic > baseline that we need to sort out, first. That is, we must keep in mind that > the Internet community strongly promotes "personal freedom". Assuming > that by stopping others from working on IPv4 will shift their energy to IPv6 > is > totally contradicting such a principle. A project attracts contributors by its > own merits, not by relying on artificial barriers to the competitions. Based > on > my best understanding, IPv6 failed right after the decision of "not > emphasizing the backward compatibility with IPv4". It broke one of the > golden rules in the system engineering discipline. After nearly three decades, > still evading such fact, but defusing IPv6 issues by various tactics is the > real > impedance to progress, not only to IPv4 but also to IPv6. > > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
