> On 16 Mar 2022, at 07:27, Abraham Y. Chen <ayc...@avinta.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Tom:
>
> 1) " .... better to have that conversation via the appropriate IETF
> channels. ": Thanks for the recommendation. I would appreciate
> very much if you could guide us to the specific contact. Before we attempt to
> do so, however, it would be prudent to report the history of our team's
> experience:
>
> A. The first IETF Draft on EzIP Project started from 2016-12 as
> instructed by the ISE (Independent Submission Editor). Although, at that time
> Working Group SunSet4 had been in session for awhile. But, we were not aware
> of, nor being informed about such.
ISE != IETF. There is no responsible AD assigned so this is not classed as IETF
work. For ISE work to become IETF work you need to convince a AD to sponsor
the work.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space/
> B. In Summer of 2018, we discovered that SunSet4 had Concluded. We
> contacted the person in charge of keeping an eye on possible future IPv4
> activities, but did not receive any instruction to revise our course.
>
> C. Recently, we were made aware of the Int-Area activities. Attempts
> to reach the Group Chairs have not received any responses.
>
> D. I just received an Int-Area Digest Vol 199, Issue 14 requesting
> IETF to reactivate the IPv4 support.
Firstly nobody uses mailing list digests as references. Secondly anyone can
post to the mailing list, you just need to subscribe. If you read the thread
you can see there is no interest in this.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/int-area/iZnR1Dkomu4D8AfHTI2xR_npJ8Y/
> Hope you can help us to close the loose ends.
>
> 2) In the meantime, we realized that the simplest implementation of the
> EzIP proposal is to replace the 100.64/10 netblock used by CG-NAT with the
> 240/4 netblock. Next, taking advantage of the much larger address pool to
> begin practicing static address assignment related disciplines, a "packetized
> PSTN" is realized. From such a base, the EzIP powered CG-NAT behaving as an
> overlay network in parallel to the existing Internet for providing the same
> services, many of the drawbacks in the latter are mitigated! So, we decided
> to discuss the EzIP proposal directly with the NANOG colleagues, because the
> EzIP deployment can actually be rather stealthy.
So replace every CPE device, including the ones you don’t own, to support 240/4
then later replace every CPE device again or replace every CPE device with one
that supports the IPv4aaS you have chosen to use and switch to IPv6-only
between the ISP and the CPE and get IPv6 delivered to your customers. Lots of
ISP’s have already gone to DS-Lite or 464XLAT, to name two IPv4aaS methods, to
provide their clients access to the legacy IPv4 internet over IPv6-only links.
Note nothing prevents there being a mixture of dual stack and IPv6-only clients
on the same access network hardware.
Remember even using these addresses as a replacement for 100.64/10 requires
every device behind the CPE to also support 240/4 or any traffic emitted from
these addresses is subject to be discarded.
> I look forward to your thoughts.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Abe (2022-03-15 16:26)
>
>
>
> On 2022-03-14 14:48, Tom Beecher wrote:
>> If you want to garner discussion or support for your draft RFC, it's
>> probably better to have that conversation via the appropriate IETF channels.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:43 PM Abraham Y. Chen <ayc...@avinta.com> wrote:
>> Hi, Fred:
>>
>> 0) Thank you for a set of references.
>>
>> 1) We cited only one IETF Draft (Wilson, et al.) among them, because it
>> was the first and only one that clearly stated its limitation (Section 2.
>> Caveats of Use). More importantly, it was written by three top APNIC
>> officials. Later efforts on this topic have not introduced (based on my
>> reading) any more essence to the topic.
>>
>> 2) "... I was there for those discussions, and I'm not sure how to put
>> it more simply.... ": With your knowledge of the past, you are uniquely
>> qualified to critique on our work. However, it would be more expedient for
>> everyone, if you could first read through at least the Abstract and the
>> Conclusions of the EzIP IETF Draft, before commenting. This is because EzIP
>> proposal is based on the same general idea as the references you cited, but
>> with a slight extra step that produced a series of surprising results. In
>> particular, we took the "Caveats" above to our hearts before proceeding. So,
>> please put such issues behind you while reviewing our work. Thanks,
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Abe (2022-03-14 14:39)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> NANOG Digest, Vol 170, Issue 15
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 21:26:11 -0700
>> From: Fred Baker
>> <fredbaker.i...@gmail.com>
>>
>> To: "Abraham Y. Chen"
>> <ayc...@avinta.com>
>> , William Herrin
>>
>> <b...@herrin.us>
>>
>> Cc: NANOG
>> <nanog@nanog.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: 202203071610.AYC Re: Making Use of 240/4 NetBlock
>> Message-ID:
>> <79746dec-8c8b-4d6d-b1d6-cb0a0003a...@gmail.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2022, at 8:15 AM, Abraham Y. Chen
>> <ayc...@avinta.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 2) On the other hand, there was a recent APNIC blog that specifically
>>> reminded us of a fairly formal request for re-designating the 240/4
>>> netblock back in 2008 (second grey background box). To me, this means
>>> whether to change the 240/4 status is not an issue. The question is whether
>>> we can identify an application that can maximize its impact.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://blog.apnic.net/2022/01/19/ip-addressing-in-2021/
>>>
>>>
>> I think there might be value in reviewing the discussion of the related
>> Internet Drafts
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-deshpande-intarea-ipaddress-reclassification-03
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=draft-deshpande-intarea-ipaddress-reclassification
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wilson-class-e-02
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=draft-wilson-class-e
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fuller-240space-02
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=draft-fuller-240space
>>
>>
>> The walkaway I had from these discussions was that while changing the
>> definition of the address space would allow RIRs to sell more IPv4 address
>> space for a few weeks (such as happened to APNIC when the last /8's were
>> handed out), there were not enough addresses in the identified pools to
>> solve the address shortage. So it was in the end a fool's errand. If you
>> want to have address space to address the current shortage, you need an
>> addressing architecture with more addresses.
>>
>> I was there for those discussions, and I'm not sure how to put it more
>> simply.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>
--
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
