Paul- You said: "... would decide to configure MPLS paths between Chicago and distant international locations ..."
AS3128 runs MPLS and it's probable someone might correct me here, but for a IGP backbone area I think it's common for there to be a full mesh of LSPs via either LDP, RSVP, SR etc. AS3128 is a small regional and we operate in that way across 60+ nodes. I don't know if it's common for someone with a global footprint like 1299 to have a contiguous global MPLS backbone, but the point of my reply was to say it's not impossible to think 1299 has a global MPLS mesh between major POPs. -Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+michael.hare=wisc....@nanog.org> On > Behalf Of PAUL R BARFORD > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 8:16 AM > To: Saku Ytti <s...@ytti.fi> > Cc: Esteban Carisimo <esteban.caris...@northwestern.edu>; > nanog@nanog.org; Fabian E. Bustamante <fabi...@cs.northwestern.edu> > Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths > > Hello Saku, > > Thank you for the summary. We're clear about the fact that what we're > seeing are MLPS paths - that was not in question. What we are not clear > about and the reason for the post is why the provider - zayo.telia in this > case > - would decide to configure MPLS paths between Chicago and distant > international locations. We assumed we would see hops in traceroute > between Chicago and coastal locations and then hops that transited > submarine infrastructure followed by hops to large population centers. > > Regards, PB > ________________________________ > > From: Saku Ytti <s...@ytti.fi> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:50 AM > To: PAUL R BARFORD <p...@cs.wisc.edu> > Cc: Lukas Tribus <lu...@ltri.eu>; Esteban Carisimo > <esteban.caris...@northwestern.edu>; nanog@nanog.org > <nanog@nanog.org>; Fabian E. Bustamante > <fabi...@cs.northwestern.edu> > Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths > > 1) all (meaning all hitting the zayo.telia) your traceroutes originate > from University in Chicago > 2) the zayo.telia device is physically close to the university > 3) we should expect physically close-by backbone device to be present > in disproportionate amount of traceroutes > 4) almost certainly zayo.telia is imposing the MPLS label of TTL 255, > _NOT_ copying IP TTL, therefore until MPLS label is popped, TTL is not > expiring. I.e. you are seeing ingressPE and egress PE ot Telia, you > are not seeing any P routers. > > This is not esoteric knowledge, but a fairly basic Internet concept. I > am worried you are missing too much context to produce actionable > output from your work. It might be interesting to see your curriculum, > why this confusion arose, why it seems logical that the reason must be > that almost all waves are terminated there, because it would not seem > logical for people practising in the field who have even cursory > understanding, this implies problems in the curriculum. > > On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 at 07:21, PAUL R BARFORD <p...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote: > > > > Please find the examples for the case of Telia below. > > > > FROM jfk-us (jfk-us.team-probing.c008820.20201002.warts.gz) > > > > > > > > traceroute from 216.66.30.102 (Ark probe hosted in New York City, NY, US. > No AS info found) to 223.114.235.32 (MAXMIXD: Turpan, CN) > > > > 1 216.66.30.101 0.365 ms > > > > 2 62.115.49.173 3.182 ms > > > > 3 * > > > > 4 62.115.137.59 17.453 ms [x] (chi-b23-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA- > GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) > > > > 5 62.115.117.48 59.921 ms [x] (sea-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net., RIPE-IPMAP -> > Seattle, WA, US) > > > > 6 62.115.171.221 69.993 ms > > > > 7 223.120.6.53 69.378 ms > > > > 8 223.120.12.34 226.225 ms > > > > 9 221.183.55.110 237.475 ms > > > > 10 221.183.25.201 238.697 ms > > > > 11 221.176.16.213 242.296 ms > > > > 12 221.183.36.62 352.695 ms > > > > 13 221.183.39.2 300.166 ms > > > > 14 117.191.8.118 316.270 ms > > > > 15 * > > > > 16 * > > > > 17 * > > > > 18 * > > > > 19 * > > > > > > > > > > > > FROM ord-us (ord-us.team-probing.c008820.20201002.warts.gz) > > > > > > > > traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at > Depaul University-AS20120) to 109.25.215.237 (237.215.25.109.rev.sfr.net., > MAXMIXD: La Crau, FR) > > > > 1 140.192.218.129 0.795 ms > > > > 2 140.192.9.124 0.603 ms > > > > 3 64.124.44.158 1.099 ms > > > > 4 64.125.31.172 3.047 ms > > > > 5 * > > > > 6 64.125.15.65 1.895 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., > CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) > > > > 7 62.115.118.59 99.242 ms [x] (prs-b3-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA- > GEOLOC -> Paris, FR) > > > > 8 62.115.154.23 105.214 ms > > > > 9 77.136.10.6 119.021 ms > > > > 10 77.136.10.6 118.830 ms > > > > 11 80.118.89.202 118.690 ms > > > > 12 80.118.89.234 118.986 ms > > > > 13 109.24.108.66 119.159 ms > > > > 14 109.25.215.237 126.085 ms > > > > > > > > > > > > traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at > Depaul University-AS20120) to 84.249.89.93 (dsl-tkubng12-54f959- > 93.dhcp.inet.fi., MAXMIXD: Turku, FI) > > > > 1 140.192.218.129 0.243 ms > > > > 2 140.192.9.124 0.326 ms > > > > 3 64.124.44.158 0.600 ms > > > > 4 * > > > > 5 * > > > > 6 64.125.15.65 1.792 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., > CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) > > > > 7 62.115.123.27 121.199 ms [x] (hls-b4-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA- > GEOLOC -> Helsinki, FI) > > > > 8 * > > > > 9 141.208.193.190 127.723 ms > > > > 10 84.249.89.93 139.051 ms > > > > > > > > > > > > traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US) to > 193.28.231.50 (MAXMIXD: None, HU) > > > > 1 140.192.218.129 0.240 ms > > > > 2 140.192.9.124 0.333 ms > > > > 3 64.124.44.158 0.648 ms > > > > 4 * > > > > 5 64.125.25.75 0.752 ms > > > > 6 64.125.15.65 1.877 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., > CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) > > > > 7 62.115.119.39 123.952 ms [x] (bpt-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net., **I > > suspect > it is in Budapest, HU**) > > > > 8 62.115.39.122 117.171 ms > > > > 9 88.151.96.148 117.202 ms > > > > 10 88.151.96.213 124.787 ms > > > > 11 * > > > > 12 * > > > > 13 * > > > > 14 * > > > > 15 * > > > > > > > > > > > > traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at > Depaul University-AS20120) to 152.195.4.11 (MAXMIXD: Los Angeles, CA, US) > > > > 1 140.192.218.129 0.224 ms > > > > 2 140.192.9.124 0.545 ms > > > > 3 64.124.44.158 0.640 ms > > > > 4 * > > > > 5 * > > > > 6 64.125.15.65 1.786 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., > CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) > > > > 7 62.115.118.247 54.597 ms [x] (las-b22-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA- > GEOLOC -> Los Angeles, CA, US) > > > > 8 62.115.11.129 55.979 ms > > > > 9 * > > > > 10 * > > > > 11 * > > > > 12 * > > > > 13 * > > > > > > > > > > > > traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at > Depaul University-AS20120) to 47.31.143.217 (MAXMIXD: Delhi, IN) > > > > 1 140.192.218.129 2.277 ms > > > > 2 140.192.9.124 0.449 ms > > > > 3 64.124.44.158 0.576 ms > > > > 4 * > > > > 5 * > > > > 6 64.125.15.65 1.814 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., > CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) > > > > 7 62.115.114.41 210.056 ms [x] (snge-b5-link.ip.twelve99.net.,) > > > > 8 62.115.177.11 200.840 ms > > > > 9 103.198.140.16 233.636 ms > > > > 10 103.198.140.16 232.871 ms > > > > 11 103.198.140.171 232.648 ms > > > > 12 * > > > > 13 * > > > > 14 * > > > > 15 * > > > > 16 * > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Lukas Tribus <lu...@ltri.eu> > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 1:52 PM > > To: PAUL R BARFORD <p...@cs.wisc.edu> > > Cc: Nick Hilliard <n...@foobar.org>; nanog@nanog.org > <nanog@nanog.org>; Esteban Carisimo > <esteban.caris...@northwestern.edu>; Fabian E. Bustamante > <fabi...@cs.northwestern.edu> > > Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths > > > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 at 20:00, PAUL R BARFORD <p...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote: > > > What we're curious about is why we're seeing a concentration of hops at > a small number of routers that appear on international paths. > > > > I suggest you share a few actual examples (IP addresses, traceroutes). > > > > I don't think discussing your conclusion based on data we don't have > > makes sense. > > > > > > Lukas > > > > -- > ++ytti
