I think the 10:1 ratio might have been great 5 years ago, when usage was more 
asymmetric. The last 5 yrs. have definitely changed the profile of a typical 
home user. A 4M upload pipe, will hit bottlenecks with all the collaboration 
that is happening remotely.

Typical residential usage:
Zoom group call: 2M upload
OneDrive + Dropbox + Box + Other file sync services: ~ 1 - 5M
Nest / Ring / Other constantly streaming camera = ~1M

If I'm working on a media file that's syncing real-time + on a zoom call, 
artifacts are impossible to avoid. Add to that 2+ users working remotely from 
the same home.

@Mike, Telehealth relies on a combination of HD video + accessories that stream 
AV + telemetry in real-time. In addition to bumping up the 4M upload, I agree 
with all the other comments on here about setting some parameters around 
latency and packet loss.

I think if anything, the proliferation of smart devices, requirements for 
higher reliability and the continuity of WFH practices are going to put 
additional demands on upload, not lower.

Abhi

________________________________
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+abhi=devireddy....@nanog.org> on behalf of Blake 
Hudson <bl...@ispn.net>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:02 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org>
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

What is the rationale for changing it? Have the applications changed? Has our 
use of them changed?

Yes, somewhat. There's been, and will continue to be, more cord cutting of 
non-IP broadcast video services towards unicast IP streaming services. However, 
video codecs have gotten more efficient so that what used to require an 8Mbps 
stream now fits in a 4Mbps package. I see more folks video conferencing 
(whether that be for personal or business use), which relies more heavily on 
upload than most applications. Folks with crummy WiFi or slower upload speeds 
have become the have-nots in this remote work era. The goal of subsidies is to 
lift the base/minimum so that there are fewer have-nots. Set the qualifier too 
low and you'll end up providing assistance where it doesn't accomplish this 
goal. Raise the qualifier too high too soon and you run the risk of excluding 
assistance where it could help.

I'm content with 10Mbps down per person in the household (a quick rule of thumb 
I've been using for a few years). If a common household has 4 people, 40Mbps 
download seems sufficient for today's typical usage (this assumes a 10:1 
download:upload ratio, so ~4Mbps up). Latency needs to be quick enough for 
real-time voice or video calls to work smoothly. If the makeup of our homes 
change or the applications we use within the home change, I'm all for adjusting 
these figures. This still leaves DSL, cable, fiber, and various wireless 
technologies as options that would qualify for the definition of broadband. At 
some point, if one of these technologies cannot keep up with the pace of demand 
it will need to be excluded in favor of technologies that have done a better 
job of keeping pace.

--B


On 5/28/2021 8:07 AM, Chris Adams (IT) wrote:

I’d be interested to understand the rationale for not wanting to change the 
definition. Is it strictly the business/capital outlay expense?





Thanks,



Chris Adams



From: NANOG 
<nanog-bounces+chris.adams=ung....@nanog.org><mailto:nanog-bounces+chris.adams=ung....@nanog.org>
 On Behalf Of Jason Canady
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 8:39 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
Subject: Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections



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I second Mike.



On 5/28/21 8:37 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

I don't think it needs to change.


-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ics-2Dil.com&d=DwMDaQ&c=FbBevciwIvGuzsJQdDnze9uCWRSXekJosRCbxNiCfPE&r=2xyWjaGAJiQBS60SNfJGVrkSN3JvZBCiAkWZBLNrNQA&m=hLl3tE5IUFeCnGVaq9aENU6Cb0VwUJSMovT2ACT74-I&s=S2l1XV98d5g-7uCPfcvNNU5WuML3uo1LVamsKRY-JHE&e=>

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________________________________

From: "Sean Donelan" <s...@donelan.com><mailto:s...@donelan.com>
To: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 7:29:08 PM
Subject: New minimum speed for US broadband connections


What should be the new minimum speed for "broadband" in the U.S.?


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