Yes it did, because they were running *all* of those over their Infinera DWDM platforms which crashed. If the underlying optical line terminals are FUBAR, all bets are off.
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:27 PM Luke Guillory <lguill...@reservetele.com> wrote: > Didn’t the Dec 2018 CL outage cause waves and even TDM circuits to go down? > > > > > > > > Luke > > > > > > > > *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+lguillory=reservetele....@nanog.org> *On > Behalf Of *Matt Erculiani > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:59 PM > *To:* Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > *Cc:* nanog list <nanog@nanog.org> > *Subject:* Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939 > > > > **External Email: Use Caution** > > For providers who use the same infrastructure for their IP backbone and > Ethernet services (as so many do), a large DDoS could disrupt all Ethernet > services that normally traverse affected links, whereas Waves would be > blissfully ignorant of such an event. Waves are pretty reliable and will > only go down as a result of a configuration error, vendor software issue, > or physical/layer 1 failure, all of which can also affect Ethernet services. > > > > This is especially important if you select a provider that sees excess > capacity as a wasted operational expense instead of an investment in > reliability. > > > > Worth noting that protected Waves do have a "reconvergence" time like > Ethernet would, but this is typically measured in nanoseconds for shorter > distances. Your equipment can probably be configured to not link-down > during this gap, you'll just see some errors or a few dropped packets > (subject to your provider's specific implementation). > > > > -Matt > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:41 PM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote: > > Yes but they're $$$ to have protection. Generally ethernet will be cheaper > than waves with the added protection. > > > > I'm not arguing for one or the other. Waves will often be cheaper when > looking at 10G or 100G compared to ethernet. For 1G or less, ethernet might > be cheaper with some protection already built-in. > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:31 PM Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > *nods* There are protected wave services generally available if you wish > to protect about such things. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net> > *Cc: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>, "nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org > > > *Sent: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:08:19 PM > *Subject: *Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939 > > The downside to waves are that they're typically not protected. So a cut > will take you down. If you have 10G Layer 2 ethernet, they often will have > redundant paths so the only single path that can fail is between you and > their first POP where they hopefully have redundancy. It can make a big > difference when you're transporting data hundreds or thousands of miles. > The longer the path, the less reliable the wave will be as each route mile > opens you up to more risk. > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > I suppose it depends on your carrier and their capabilities. > > I much prefer waves to any kind of service that you can aggregate. Being > able to aggregate just means they're going to oversubscribe you and at some > point, you'll not get what you're paying for. Can't do that on a wave. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > *To: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" <li...@packetflux.com> > *Cc: *"nanog list" <nanog@nanog.org> > *Sent: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:25:46 AM > *Subject: *Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939 > > For small ISPs looking at setting up their first ever presence at an IX > point, you almost certainly would not be ordering an actual 'wave' (eg: a > specific DWDM channel on a legacy 10G DWDM platform, handed off to you with > 1310/LX interfaces at both ends), but lit layer 2 transport service between > the carrier hotel and your service location. > > > > Pricing for the two types of service can be quite different when you > request an actual 'wave' from a carrier sales person, vs just lit L2 > transport capable of large MTUs, QinQ, etc. > > > > The ISP carrying it might take it between those two places as simply a > vlan trunked through a larger 100G link, as a MPLS circuit, lots of > possible things. > > > > Unless you happened to be in a happy conjunction of the right place at the > right time, and an older DWDM system on exactly the same path you wanted > happened to have an empty channel and ready to go interface cards at both > ends. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) < > li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > Generally one would order a circuit (aka wave) between your location and > the IX fabric at the interchange if you're not at the site you're wanting > to peer at. > > > > For instance, the network I am the network engineer for has a circuit > which terminates into the Seattle IX (SIX) fabric. We don't have any > other presence in Seattle (or Washington for that matter) at this point - > our circuit connects directly to our port on the Exchange. We're > considering adding a similar link to another exchange point somewhere to > the east or southeast of us. I haven't looked at the graphs recently, but > it's not uncommon for >50% of our traffic to come from the exchange. And > yes, we're peered with Hurricane and others there. > > > > We're also looking at dropping 1U or so of equipment in so we can pick up > some transit as well, but that's a story for a different day about the joys > of providing internet in the less populated parts of the country. > > > > In your case, it also looks like there are also some peering options at > the datacenters you are currently at as well. You may want to do some > more research to determine how that might work in your situation. > PeeringDB is a good resource along with google searches for "peering 100 > Taylor" or "peering austin data foundry" > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 9:51 PM <aar...@gvtc.com> wrote: > > Don’t you have to be there to join? > > > > I’m in Austin and San Antonio > > > > -Aaron > > > > *From:* Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 7:20 PM > *To:* Aaron Gould <aar...@gvtc.com> > *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org > *Subject:* Re: Hurricane Electric AS6939 > > > > https://bgp.he.net/AS16527 > > > > You don't appear to be on any IXes. Definitely join some IXes before > buying another 100G of transit. > > > > DFW has a couple and there are some more that are starting up. > > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > > *Midwest Internet Exchange* > > *The Brothers WISP* > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Aaron Gould" <*aar...@gvtc.com <aar...@gvtc.com>*> > *To: **nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org>* > *Sent: *Tuesday, October 13, 2020 6:29:55 PM > *Subject: *Hurricane Electric AS6939 > > Do y’all like HE for Internet uplink? I’m thinking about using them for > 100gig in Texas. It would be for my eyeballs ISP. We currently have > Spectrum, Telia and Cogent. > > -Aaron > > > > > > > -- > > - Forrest > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > -- <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > Darin Steffl <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > Minnesota WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > *www.mnwifi.com* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > 507-634-WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > *Like us on Facebook* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > -- <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > Darin Steffl <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > Minnesota WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > *www.mnwifi.com* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > 507-634-WiFi <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > *Like us on Facebook* <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > -- <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > Matt Erculiani <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > ERCUL-ARIN <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > >
