Am 9 Dec 2009 um 19:01 schrieb Christopher Zimmermann:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:38:56 -0500
Jason Dixon <ja...@dixongroup.net> wrote:
How does the announcement of new releases for ComixWall
help OpenBSD?
It helps in promoting OpenBSD. And this is the official
purpose of the advocasy mailing list.
So I think that announcements of ComixWall releases could go
into the advocasy list.
Is this a false conclusion? If not Soner Tari could go on
with his project and post his announcements to the advocacy
list.
Anyway, since the advocascy list is dead, the two
announcements to misc should not be censured in such a harsh
way.
The premise that this is advocacy may be entirely mistaken, as it does
not strike me as a strong argument in favour of OpenBSD to say that it
needs to be redistributed with an alternate installer, a web GUI, and
some additional software builds to be *really* useful than as released
by the core development community. Might it not be the case that the
existing packages and ports system already makes OpenBSD a "fully FOSS
and freely available UTM firewall" or that improving support for
what's bundled with ComixWall to make more components available as
packages and/or ports would be offer greater flexibility in how people
decide to acquire and deploy the product, more effectively supporting
and growing the community? This creates a problem of due recognition
and attribution, which is what's feeding all the moments of dispute
and misunderstanding that follow.
How does abstraction of arguably the cleanest, easiest to
learn UNIX, help OpenBSD?
It helps in promoting OpenBSD. Promoting OpenBSD will make
OpenBSD more widely known. This will attract more possible
developers. They will write code for OpenBSD. This will help
OpenBSD.
These conclusions are tenuous leaps, amounting to a secret sauce
argument: OpenBSD tastes good, but with the secret sauce it would be
able attract all kinds of smart people it somehow can't attract with
its current recipe. This logic of supplementarity rather makes the
supplement the essential thing rather than the essential thing that
it's supposed to promote, and that seems to sell what OpenBSD already
is and its ability to continue to evolve as a technology, a
development process, and a series of communities short. Not even
prospectively can the proposition that there is no ComixWall without
OpenBSD be not made reversible in the way you seem to suggest, any
more than supporting a redistribution on premises overstated with
respect to the OpenBSD core will amount to support in various forms
getting back to OpenBSD per se. You say grafting, I say grifting.
I know I just added some additional noise, still I
would be glad to see this issue settled in a
non-destructive way.
It is settled. You're whining.
If this is true, it's a pity. Then comixwall just died.
I still hope this issue can be settled in a NON-DESTRUCTIVE
way.
And yes. I AM WHINING. It bothers me when people destroy
such a huge amount of good work just because of a stupid
attack of bad mood.
Sorry if I'm repeating myself for a moment here, but isn't imagining
ComixWall as a (or the) vital supplement to OpenBSD in the way you're
suggesting selling a huge amount of very far good work short? I find
myself able to reach that conclusion without being seized by a fit of
pique, but I can imagine having good reason to be angry at the
suggestion, the more so if I was one of the people with a sustained
record of contribution to the project. If there's an attack that's
happened, it may be a stupid, but that's as far as the agreed facts
go. I'm sure you mean well, but I for one don't follow your account of
what's destruction and what's supportive here. If the question is how
to do better, the prospects for improvement are substantially reduced
if one fails to grasp what has succeeded thus far.
OpenBSD is a great OS and ComixWall enables many people
to use it. I don't see any reason why the two projects
should not be able to cooperate.
Because they are not "cooperative" projects. OpenBSD
doesn't need ComixWall. OpenBSD is Free, Functional and
Secure(*).
(*) And easy.
Right. And the devil may care.
Not helping comixwall by bearing one release announcement
per year is not lazy, not even selfish, its just PLAIN
FUCKING STUPID!
As for the devil, aren't those the details the difference between
Faust I lines 4611 and 4612? OpenBSD doesn't face Gretchen's problems,
and overstating self-deprecation in the name of self-promotion seems
more rather than less stupid, even if these indulgences are limited to
a few annual episodes. Oh, the sauce!
If the complaint here is that there's something overwrought, it seems
ironic in not quite the right way to be so overwrought in response. If
I've poked you with a stick here it's aimed at ticklish spots so that
we might now take a moment to have a chuckle and then get back on track.
Cheers,
Bayard
