via C7 a C3 questions?
they work well? they give support?
thanks
On 6/27/07, Nick Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 6/27/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Various developers are busy implimenting workarounds for serious bugs
> > in Intel's Core 2 cpu.
> >
> > These processors are buggy as hell, and some of these bugs don't just
> > cause development/debugging problems, but will *ASSUREDLY* be
> > exploitable from userland code.
> >
> > As is typical, BIOS vendors will be very late providing workarounds /
> > fixes for these processors bugs. Some bugs are unfixable and cannot
> > be worked around. Intel only provides detailed fixes to BIOS vendors
> > and large operating system groups. Open Source operating systems are
> > largely left in the cold.
> >
> > Full (current) errata from Intel:
> >
> > http://download.intel.com/design/processor/specupdt/31327914.pdf
> >
> > - We bet there are many more errata not yet announced -- every month
> > this file gets larger.
> > - Intel understates the impact of these erraata very significantly.
> > Almost all operating systems will run into these bugs.
> > - Basically the MMU simply does not operate as specified/implimented
> > in previous generations of x86 hardware. It is not just buggy, but
> > Intel has gone further and defined "new ways to handle page tables"
> > (see page 58).
> > - Some of these bugs are along the lines of "buffer overflow"; where
> > a write-protect or non-execute bit for a page table entry is ignored.
> > Others are floating point instruction non-coherencies, or memory
> > corruptions -- outside of the range of permitted writing for the
> > process -- running common instruction sequences.
> > - All of this is just unbelievable to many of us.
> >
> > An easier summary document for some people to read:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.geek.com/images/geeknews/2006Jan/core_duo_errata__2006_01_21__full.gif
> >
> > Note that some errata like AI65, AI79, AI43, AI39, AI90, AI99 scare
> > the hell out of us. Some of these are things that cannot be fixed in
> > running code, and some are things that every operating system will do
> > until about mid-2008, because that is how the MMU has always been
> > managed on all generations of Intel/AMD/whoeverelse hardware. Now
> > Intel is telling people to manage the MMU's TLB flushes in a new and
> > different way. Yet even if we do so, some of the errata listed are
> > unaffected by doing so.
> >
> > As I said before, hiding in this list are 20-30 bugs that cannot be
> > worked around by operating systems, and will be potentially
> > exploitable. I would bet a lot of money that at least 2-3 of them
> > are.
> >
> > For instance, AI90 is exploitable on some operating systems (but not
> > OpenBSD running default binaries).
> >
> > At this time, I cannot recommend purchase of any machines based on the
> > Intel Core 2 until these issues are dealt with (which I suspect will
> > take more than a year). Intel must be come more transparent.
> >
> > (While here, I would like to say that AMD is becoming less helpful day
> > by day towards open source operating systems too, perhaps because
> > their serious errata lists are growing rapidly too).
>
>
> So who currently (if anybody) is cooperating nicely? This is a sad state
> of
> affairs.
