Good am Marv: I had not realised that you had thought this was so central at the moment in your concerns. To be honest for my own part, I was more concerned at the moment, to digest the elections and considering its immediate, medium and long term. FWIW - I'll re-look at this, since it was originally addressed as a reply to a comment I made.
You write: Marv Gandall Nov 10 #33475 1. Thesis: 'Fidelity to the Leninist model-> sectarianism. "I've concluded that the Leninist model was designed for revolutionary conditions, and that absent such conditions, fidelity to the model leads to sectarian isolation. " In this earlier note: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/33404. You had agreed: " that a Leninist group better “prepares" activists to intervene in outbreaks of mass activity by providing them with the necessary political education and organizing skills. And, finally, I agree that if such mass activity were to culminate in a revolutionary crisis, a democratic centralist party would be required to lead it to a successful conclusion. " 2. In fact you had also stated: Leninist model-> Was spectacularly successful." "What gave rise to these organizational forms was the underlying view that there was a crisis of leadership in the workers’ movement, with the reformist leaders lagging and restraining the revolutionary impulses of the base. This thesis proved to be spectacularly vindicated in the Bolshevik Revolution". 3. However you say that the situation is different now "Evidence that the reformist consciousness of the union and union-backed party leaders typically reflects rather than lags the consciousness of their members and supporters. If it were otherwise, Marxists who have intervened in the workers’ movement in the advanced capitalist economies would have long since recovered their lost influence. " My comment. i) Marv - I do not know why you think anything is different. There were long 'fallow periods' in the First International, during which Marx and Engels were trying to prepare the forces of the Communist league; Lenin was preparing the Iskra with his Bolsheviks for years before a 'break'. Such is the very long period since end WW2. But, we are into change now - in a big way I suspect (see iv). ii) The reformist leaders "reflect the workers" - true - but I would have my cake and eat it, and say that a small layer of them also "lag it" the workers, that layer being the labour aristocracy. You are surely not saying they have disappeared? iii) I believe there are sectarians outside of any Leninist organisation. I think that Lenin gave advice against sectarianism. I think its repetitive rise reflects an 'easier path mentality' and is dangerous. I do not accept that the Leninist structure *of itself* gives rise to sectarianism. As so much else this requires a longer historical consideration, and I have not the time to do that now. iv) The 2 key aspects in your note are going to be prominent considerations in this next period - an accelerating phase in fact. Namely - the need for a non-sectarian mass front(s); with a core of highly organised party formations (I deliberately use the plural - there are already a number of such proto to full-blown small parties. Each vying to be seen as the party.) v) As the electronic surveillance reaches even higher pitches - no doubt it has already dramatically escalated over 5-10 years ago - organised cores will continue to be needed. My immediate responses, perhaps too terse and need elaboration. Be well, H -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#33489): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/33489 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/109504727/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: marxmail+ow...@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
