HI Lu, I feel the same way.
thank you for voicing what I have and still felt and feel for a long time. Jenny On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Lewis Alexander wrote: > on the thought of the muppet show, if anyone remembers the swedish chef? I > think that could be me lol. banana-nana-nanana split. lol > > If the UK could really improve their support systems, we'd be in a better > place, HSE regulations changed or adapted, company insurance rules changed in > favour of disabled people to give them equal chance. > > The whole purpose of the human rights act, the equality act and the > disability discrimination acts is to support, in our case, disability rights > and allow us to integrate into society and be treated as equals, not confined > and isolated / segregated. What does this government want us to do? be locked > in attics or institutions until we fade to nothing? well I'm sorry but I'm > not bloomin well having it... > > The point of morality is fairness to all, equality and understanding. I could > go further by a religious study and interpolation between religion and logic > but I won't as that's not something to be done., however, > > as we are human beings, we all have needs. By technicality and logic, we are > all disabled in one way or other and have needs that differ from each other, > thus the concept of humanity has to be stabilised by understanding and > support. > > What worries me, now more than ever, is how education and social standards > have shifted. Taking education as an example, no one these days educates > students in ethics, respect, morals, how the world works, the differences > between people and how to interact with them and understand them, as well as > treating them with the respect they wish for. > > Is it not the case that if you wish to be treated with the respect and > dignity you aim for, that you reflect that requirement in your acts and deeds > to others? This is what schools are missing, also this is called into > question by today's generation of families. I can call to an example an > incident where I was rather outraged by what had occurred. Whilst shopping > with my mum (P.A), a young lad kept shouting "Blind B******, I was made aware > this brat was with it's mother, she also decided to make references of a > sickening nature towards me and I chose to initially ignore it until it > became too intense and an audience started to generate. I decided that > enough was enough and followed to the sound of the mother, rather than the > child. I basically put it to this woman that if she wished to continue her > actions, she would be arrested under 2 counts. Section 5 public order offense > and under the DDA rulings of disability discrimination in a public situation. > The lad decided to give me a kick in the leg and my mum, at my side > restrained him, I called for security and police assistance. The attitude of > the woman in question was sickening, causing me to greatly doubt the > existence of "decent people" in my home town. > > I notice, as we all do, that I and we, use the word disabled when it comes to > blindness or visual impairment. My degree of tolerance to the word > "disability becomes rather "pushed" as I do not see that my sight loss is a > disability in the context that I am a living person, capable of things that > sighted people couldn't do, and at the same time, at a disadvantage to > sighted people. > > OK... wouldn't we all like to drive a car, read a paper without braille, see > someone's face, etc? > > All I'm going to say now is this... > > We are dealt with the cards the master gives us, it is up to us as to how we > deal with those cards and as to how we adapt to our limitations. If you let > the world stand on you for too long, you're conditioned to it and allow it to > happen. However... if you fight back and say "NO!" then you have the power to > change things for the better. > > that's my rant over. > > MEE MEE MEE MEEEEEEEEEEE! (beaker from the muppets) > > lew > > > On 29 Apr 2012, at 19:51, Jenny Keller wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm sorry for the misconceptions and inaccurate information about things for >> the blind in the UK. >> >> I know that I have heard, though, that in Australia, they give you the >> choice of computers with accessible software, but I could be wrong about >> that too. >> >> Here, you have to be in school or have a job to get accessible anything. >> the thing about that is, there are some people like me, that can't work due >> to other health problems, and frankly, I'm treated as though I don't need >> adaptive anything because I don't work. >> >> That's a crock of bull, because every blind person needs adaptive equipment. >> >> >> The Americans with Disabilities Act only works well for certain groups of >> disabled people here. >> >> It's sad, but it's good to know that America isn't the only one screwing >> over the blind or visually impaired. >> >> Oh by the way, the amount of money they give you to live on only provides >> enough for subsidized housing, which usually isn't in a safe neighborhoods >> and have questionable people either living in them, or around them dealing >> drugs, or prostituting themselves because what they make isn't enough either. >> >> If you spit out kids like bum balls with multiple fathers who don't pay >> child support and aren't married, you get more assistance than if you are a >> married disabled couple. >> >> When my husband and I got married, we are both blind, our food stamps got >> drastically cut. If we had just lived together, we would get more. >> However, it is against my religious beliefs to live together without the >> benefit of marriage. >> >> So much for doing the right thing. >> >> Jenny >> On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:03 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hi Jenny, I'm glad I've been listening to this thread. >>> >>> From my experience on this, Here in the UK, though there is audio >>> description to TV shows via new digital TV's, there still isn't a spoken >>> user interface to allow access to various menus, same on DVD players, >>> recorders, etc. I've not yet come across a single audio described DVD in my >>> time. >>> >>> Support for blind and visually impaired people in most parts of the UK is >>> absolutely shocking. as an example, in education, I'm here in Wales (a >>> lottery win would see me leaving here as soon as possible), throughout my >>> education life, both visually impaired and blind, I've been let down and >>> lied to, given useless equipment which constantly failed, the wrong >>> software, extremely poor braille training, etc. the only good thing that >>> came from it was mobility training through RNIB instead of social services >>> rehab department. >>> >>> There was a point where mobility aids were free but now they're not, so I >>> have to pay about £300 per year on canes and tips due to high usage and >>> certain occasions where thugs in our area attack me destroying the cane for >>> "fun", so replacement canes are kept by. >>> >>> If you apply for funding, it's virtually non existent, not only that but >>> the rulings given have no sense nor structure. so if you need adaptive >>> equipment, not a chance, it's sell what you own or get into debt, that's my >>> experience on that matter. >>> >>> Why is it when you walk into a store and ask for help, you get a useless >>> person who hasn't a clue of how to assist you? I get this all the time... I >>> may as well appear as a muppet on the Muppet Show.. You ask to be guided >>> and they go without you, they say " it's over there", don't describe the >>> items, etc. So what's the bloomin use of them in the first place. >>> >>> Then of course the ultimate insult. to be blind and wanting to work for >>> companies here is a joke. Though I'm highly qualified and have all the >>> right requirements, because of being blind, there are 3 main areas that >>> stop me from working for a firm. 1: disability discrimination by the >>> interviewer or company, 2: Health and Safety regulations acts, 3: employer >>> insurance costs. >>> >>> I've been in the IT game for myself for a while and don't mind it, but my >>> main skills are as a cabinet maker, having been trained by my grandfather >>> who was a master cabinet maker / carpenter. so I took on his work after his >>> retirement, so I'm the last in the line of the family in the trades and am >>> keeping that alive. I'm fine working for myself, but if I were to work for >>> a joinery company, they couldn't take me on for the amount of HSE red tape >>> nonsense. This stops us experienced folk from doing our jobs and putting us >>> out of work and I'm sick of it. >>> >>> I do some work with a company as a product demonstrator / endorser of their >>> products as I use them every day in the workshop and it's ridiculous how >>> all this nonsense gets in the way. >>> >>> Anyway, I also agree that here in the UK, if you're in a wheel chair, deaf, >>> etc you receive more support, blind and visually impaired people don't >>> matter and we're being ripped off with rubbish services, etc. Education is >>> a total mess where mainstream education should be the best option and is >>> instead hampered by people who cannot cater for a blind or visually >>> impaired person's needs and LEGAL RIGHTS. >>> >>> anyway, enough from me on that matter and I agree with your statements. >>> This world needs to open it's eyes to how we have to survice in this world >>> and that we should be treeted with the utmost respect and care, given the >>> same rights as the rest of the world and granted the support we need to be >>> able to achieve what our SIGHTED, able bodied equals should and are able >>> to do. >>> >>> lew >>> >>> On 29 Apr 2012, at 01:40, Jenny Keller wrote: >>> >>>> Well, In my humble opinion, equality isn't there, so that, isn't fair >>>> treatment. the Americans with Disabilities Act should include the blind >>>> or visually \impaired just as vigorously as it does every other disability >>>> in this country. >>>> >>>> there aren't any services, that I know of at this point, that the visually >>>> impaired community, or blind community receive that anyone else would >>>> consider unfair. >>>> >>>> Believe me, I've been almost totally blind all my life, and I can say from >>>> experience, that the simplest things that I've needed have had to be >>>> justified by education or work, which I can work because of other physical >>>> disabilities, and for education, I wasn't given the option of being taught >>>> braille in the beginning because I had some sight. So I can say out of >>>> experience, there isn't anything that I own, that I didn't beg, borrow, or >>>> barter, or finance within an inch of my disability, to get. >>>> >>>> to be very frank, there are a lot of things, such as that bar code reader >>>> they have on special on financing, which I can't afford, that my husband >>>> and I desperately need,, that I'll never be able to have. Only because I >>>> can't justify it to the government because we're not working. >>>> >>>> We both have physical limitations to prevent us from doing so, but because >>>> of that, we don't have the opportunity for the simplest and most basic of >>>> things to help us with independent cooking and identification skills. >>>> >>>> so I don't have a problem downloading anything that is descriptive from >>>> that site because I'm tired of being left out because I'm not able to work >>>> and can't afford the opportunities that I should get for things that >>>> others can. If I lived in the UK, things would be a lot different, and if >>>> I could get on a plane and become a citizen to the United Kingdom, I >>>> certainly would in, well, a New York minute. >>>> >>>> to make this apple related, the only reason I have this machine is because >>>> I had to put up with my Dad's crap and constant criticism for him to buy >>>> it for me. >>>> >>>> If it weren't for that, we wouldn't even be talking. >>>> >>>> Jenny >>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Keep in mind, fair doesn't always mean equal. I'm sure if we looked hard >>>>> enough, we can find some services offered exclusively to those who are >>>>> visually impaired and or blind. >>>>> >>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info >>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Jenny Keller <jlperd...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In my opinion, accessible movies, TV shows, appliances, etc, should fall >>>>>> under the ADA. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not to be politically incorrect here, but if people in wheelchairs can >>>>>> get them for free and most places are made to be accessible for them, >>>>>> and the deaf get closed captioning for almost every TV show and >>>>>> eventually DVD, and TTY phones and free relay services, then why isn't >>>>>> it mandatory that we get the same consideration. >>>>>> >>>>>> The fact is, we don't, and in my opinion, if we have to go to other >>>>>> sources to get it because this wonderful country of ours, who makes >>>>>> other disabilities have accessible products and services as mandatory, >>>>>> then we have do do it until we get our fair shake. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's fairness to all, or it shouldn't be for any. >>>>>> >>>>>> Go red, white, and blue:( >>>>>> >>>>>> Jenny >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Arguably, anything beyond the things required for daily living is a >>>>>>> luxury. Plenty of people do not have computers or TV's. I personally >>>>>>> have found a greater appreciation for movies and television shows when >>>>>>> they are described, and it is exceedingly frustrating when one cannot >>>>>>> watch a foreign film or dialogue-poor show. The level of audio >>>>>>> description in the UK versus what is available in the U.S. is >>>>>>> astounding -- in fact, the bulk of the audio description is done in >>>>>>> Great Britain. I remember not going to action movies with peers when I >>>>>>> was younger, or not being invited, because no one wanted to describe >>>>>>> them to me. I remember people becoming annoyed when my mother quietly >>>>>>> described what was going on in a movie. >>>>>>> Even important information on news broadcasts is flashed across >>>>>>> screens. If it is possible to accommodate the print-disabled and >>>>>>> visually impaired in one country, it is possible in another. We should >>>>>>> not have to pick and choose among "luxuries" -- Shopping for >>>>>>> appliances is another nightmare; I am tired of having to get someone to >>>>>>> go over touch screens and controls with me so that I can memorize, mark >>>>>>> controls, or make charts so that I can use something for which I paid >>>>>>> full price. Even companies which advertise that they have "accessible >>>>>>> manuals" either do not actually provide them or only provide them in >>>>>>> shorter, slimmed-down versions. >>>>>>> If something is accessible to people who want it and can afford it, it >>>>>>> should be accessible to all. Not only is their a fairness component, >>>>>>> but a social component: culturally, experientially, we are better >>>>>>> integrated into the social fabric of our societies when we have >>>>>>> independent, real-world access to the things our peers take for granted. >>>>>>> Christine >>>>>>> show >>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 1:34 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys. >>>>>>>> I love audio description as much as any blind person could. Before you >>>>>>>> couldn't get them, I bought several movies on those tapes, movies I >>>>>>>> wanted to watch again. However, and maybe I'm showing my age here, but >>>>>>>> I consider audio description to be a luxury for us. I watched movies >>>>>>>> and TV just fine before we got it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Computer accessibility, however, including the Internet's >>>>>>>> accessibility, has become an increasingly frustrating necessity. I >>>>>>>> don't have statistics to back up my opinion, but I think we delude >>>>>>>> ourselves if we think we are a money-making proposition. Poor Apple >>>>>>>> has been braver than everybody else by jumping into the quicksand of >>>>>>>> accessibility. If the good folks in Cupertino are sorry they they made >>>>>>>> the plunge, they are being smart enough to be quiet about it. I think >>>>>>>> they will be better off than everyone else in that regard eventually, >>>>>>>> especially when the feds get involved in evaluating accessibility the >>>>>>>> education arena. At least Apple will have no trouble, unlike others, >>>>>>>> proving that the iPad, etc. is accessible to blind and other disabled >>>>>>>> students. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A blind friend of mine was asking me about these new vending machines >>>>>>>> that touch screens. He was asking if there was an iPhone app to >>>>>>>> control those things because he's concerned that he won't even able to >>>>>>>> get a cold drink without extra help otherwise. As it is, at least at >>>>>>>> his work, he can count the buttons. I have another blind friend whose >>>>>>>> electric oven went out, and she a terrible time finding an accessible >>>>>>>> one. My microwave is still partially inaccessible since my husband has >>>>>>>> yet to put labels onto that mostly flat screen. When I go to >>>>>>>> Louisville this summer, I can just about guarantee that I can't >>>>>>>> independently watch TV, unless you guys can tell me of an iPhone app >>>>>>>> that will for sure work with the hotel's TV. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could go on and on giving examples. Without getting political, both >>>>>>>> blindness organizations have written resolutions for positive and/or >>>>>>>> negative motivators for some of these folks that are busy making our >>>>>>>> lives more and ore inaccessible. We lost the battle of the >>>>>>>> accessibility of curbing in our U.S. cities for blind folks, making >>>>>>>> our mobility more difficult. We can't afford to lose the computer >>>>>>>> accessibility thing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Gigi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eugenia Firth >>>>>>>> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> not getting it just yet, figuring out finances, etc so should have it >>>>>>>>> end of may. snowed under at the mo with a machine restoration. a >>>>>>>>> vintage industrial machine I'm completely rebuilding ready for use. >>>>>>>>> so today's been spray work and drying. tomorow's the same. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> then after that it's assembly work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lew >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 28 Apr 2012, at 13:50, Donna Goodin wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Lew, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> congrats on your iPad. they really are cool devices. My husband >>>>>>>>>> has one, and I thought long and hard about getting one too. But >>>>>>>>>> eventually I decided that since I didn't need the larger screen, >>>>>>>>>> that the iPhone could do everything I needed, so it didn't make >>>>>>>>>> sense to duplicate devices. I confess, though, I'm envious. Every >>>>>>>>>> once in a while I look at my husband's iPad and get a sudden craving >>>>>>>>>> for coolaide. lol >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:44 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> nice one donna, I fully agree. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the iPad is a product which can truly change the lives of blind >>>>>>>>>>> users throughout the world. I'm in the process of buying an iPad as >>>>>>>>>>> it's needed for work both in the workshop and on site as a rep for >>>>>>>>>>> a company, so the online catalogue needs to be available and >>>>>>>>>>> accessible to me all the time, the iPad for me feels absolutely >>>>>>>>>>> amazing, after road testing the new model, I've fallen in love with >>>>>>>>>>> it. I don't need a wife, just an iPad lol >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> lew >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 28 Apr 2012, at 13:39, Donna Goodin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Christine, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm perplexed. How do you see the push to have iPads in >>>>>>>>>>>> classrooms as something that leaves the blind/VI student out? If >>>>>>>>>>>> anything, I see that as something that better enables us to >>>>>>>>>>>> participate, thanks to the fact that Apple has made the iPad a >>>>>>>>>>>> fully accessible device. >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:36 AM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With all due respect, Scott, laws which disparately impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> certain groups or classes of people have been flouted through >>>>>>>>>>>>> civil disobedience since the introduction of legal systems, e.g., >>>>>>>>>>>>> civil rights, disability rights, employment rights, etc. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> United States might not exist were it not for disobeying laws. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am an attorney, and it continues to amaze me how slowly the >>>>>>>>>>>>> U.S. is moving to accommodate disability, and how snail-paced the >>>>>>>>>>>>> societal shift in attitudes toward us has been. and it seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> that whenever a company like Apple makes great strides in >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodating blindness off the shelf, plenty of other >>>>>>>>>>>>> technologies come along and do not bother to incorporate us into >>>>>>>>>>>>> their equation. So many educational apps, for example, are not >>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible, though they could be, and given the push now to have >>>>>>>>>>>>> iPads in classrooms, once again blind, visually impaired, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise print-disabled students will be left out. Apple moves >>>>>>>>>>>>> us two steps forward, and "progress" (for others) moves us three >>>>>>>>>>>>> steps back. I should be able to turn on a television, flip a >>>>>>>>>>>>> switch, or turn on a transmitter, and get descriptions. I should >>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to access books on the Nook or the Kindle, not just >>>>>>>>>>>>> iBooks. I cannot express, and I am sure others here agree, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness I feel when a new release or best-selling publication >>>>>>>>>>>>> is available on iBooks. >>>>>>>>>>>>> (Incidentally, if a book is available on iBooks and on >>>>>>>>>>>>> bookshare.org, I purchase the book. Yet, I have lost quite a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>> of money as a published author -- as soon as my book was >>>>>>>>>>>>> published, I sent a copy to bookshare.org; it was more important >>>>>>>>>>>>> to me to have it available at the same time to the blind and >>>>>>>>>>>>> print-disabled. The Authors Guild apparently does not care about >>>>>>>>>>>>> such access, despite the fact that they would actually get money >>>>>>>>>>>>> from us.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would happily go to the movies more and happily purchase >>>>>>>>>>>>> audio-described movies through iTunes if they were available. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Even movies which are released with audio description are not >>>>>>>>>>>>> always sold through movie resellers -- goodness knows I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> tried. To date, I have only located The Incredible Hulk, from >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2008, which I purchased for my son. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Apple could do more. It could strengthen its requirements >>>>>>>>>>>>> for apps. It has provided developers with the means to make their >>>>>>>>>>>>> apps VoiceOver accessible, and there are plenty of apps out there >>>>>>>>>>>>> which could be so. Only apps that are visual by their very nature >>>>>>>>>>>>> should be exempted. But, as usual, profit trumps people, despite >>>>>>>>>>>>> the fact that the disabled community rewards those who remember >>>>>>>>>>>>> us with our business. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Frankly, I would prefer to purchase the audio-described movies >>>>>>>>>>>>> and shows I download from the vault, so that I could watch them >>>>>>>>>>>>> with sighted friends and family. I wish I could show a film to a >>>>>>>>>>>>> class and not have to ask my para or a student to tell me what is >>>>>>>>>>>>> going on. The entertainment industry gets plenty of my money. If >>>>>>>>>>>>> they want more, they should remember that I deserve to be able to >>>>>>>>>>>>> access their material independently. OK. Topic over. Those of you >>>>>>>>>>>>> who wish to continue this off-list are welcome; I've appreciated >>>>>>>>>>>>> your correspondence thus far. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Christine >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sure commenting on this only adds fuel to the fire, but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> did want to point out that as I recall the person that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for this movie vault thing also runs a legit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> company. I would find it difficult to believe that he has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> checked into this because no one would want to put their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> business assets at risk. If there truly is an investigation then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> prove it. I get pretty annoyed when people claim something, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot or do not provide any reference to back those claims. And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the record I do not condone pirating of any kind and believe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that regardless of accessibility issues even blind people must >>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow the laws. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Naturally, if the moderator deems this discussion verboten, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will refrain further, but I would feel remiss not to point out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the following for consideration: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. As of several hours ago, there was nothing on the FBI's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> official web site regarding an investigation, nor were there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any press releases or other comparable references to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investigation of the movie vault. A reference would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated; mere speculation or rumor could be deemed libelous. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. The problem industries have with illegal file-sharing is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loss of revenue. Since, at least in the United States, there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> virtually no way to purchase audio-described movies or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> television shows, the industry is not being cheated of revenue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. The files are straight audio, with no ability, for example, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to "watch" with sighted peers while having the benefit of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio description. This is not at all remotely similar to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloading a film for the family to watch. That being said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the vast majority of the sighted community does this with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impunity, even though many of the shows and movies they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> download can be seen for free when they are are shown on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> television. We, on the other hand, cannot even enjoy full >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to these shows when they *are* on television. Either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are not audio-described at all, or it is not easy to turn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the secondary audio channel, or a particular station only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carries foreign language broadcasts on the SAC rather than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio description. Comparing access to audio-described movies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and shows in mp3 format to the type of file-sharing which goes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 24/7 on hundreds and thousands of sites is a stretch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. If the government and/or the involved industries wish to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something about the existence of resources like the movie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vault, the former should mandate, and the latter should provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a market from which we can obtain these items. I have been able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to watch a non-described movie with others after listening to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an mp3 file and tell another blind person what is going on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to that previous experience. My two blind children have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been able to enjoy fare which their peers enjoyed months or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ago. Until the entertainment industry levels the playing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field, I will utilize resources like the movie vault with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same guiltless pleasure I take in bookshare.org (and, by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, it is possible to download books from bookshare.org which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are available commercially.) We cannot use the Kindle as others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. WE cannot use the Nook. We are severely limited in what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can access independently when it comes to entertainment, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we must even still fight for access to education at every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level, despite technological advances. Holding us to the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standards as the vast majority of illegal file-sharers is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legally, morally, and economically inequitable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. 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macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
