I think most of what xTools installs is located in the Developer folder
at the top level of your hard drive. One thing I was disappointed in was
tat the iOS Simulator
(Developer/Platforms/iPhoneSimulator.platform/Developer/Applications/iOS
Simulator) doesn't let you turn on voiceover. Why would they leave that out?
CB
On 2/9/12 6:18 AM, Paul Erkens wrote:
Hi CB,
Very informative. Thanks a lot. I understand it and it makes sense. Interesting
experience for a linux newbie. So in short, x11 I can safely forget about. Good
to know. Thanks for trying it out by the way. I have xcode installed, because I
want to use mac ports some day soon, but even getting an overview of what xcode
all contains is as clear as mud to me at this time. Your clue pointed me to
where I might find some of the files that xcode installed, to begin with, which
will be interesting. The xcode installer app gave a whole bunch of stuff that I
don't know how to find yet, but that's all a different matter. I now know a bit
about x11.
Paul.
On Feb 8, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:
X11 and xTerminals have been around for decades. The idea is to separate the
GUI from the CPU. So drop down menus, window management, mouse, keyboard, audio
and other user-facing aspects are all a separate framework. In the days of yore
you could actually buy dumb xterms and have a room full of them hooked to a
single CPU over ethernet. That said, xterm displays and such are now just
software used to support connections to remote computers (almost always unix)
with something more than a command line. As has been mentioned, xterm and the
x11 apps that run on it are not accessible and, based on the vintage of the
technology, probably will never be. There is less and less need for xterms with
web clients, screen sharing and desktop computers everywhere. It did have some
neat features that I could, in theory, have a computer anywhere on the internet
and route its GUI display to my Mac running xterm, but how useful is that today
with other screen sharing apps readily available? They had a whole system set
up where the remote CPU could send a command to my xterm to pop a new window of
certain size and location. My xterm could also send a command back saying the
window was moved from one location to another. All very low bandwidth stuff.
Today bandwidth is such that they just do a brute force method to take screen
shots 10 times a second and send that whole video stream over the wire. Who
needs delicate frameworks when you can do that, and it handles anything that
can be thrown on the screen.
Anyway, just some history. Today you have to install the Xcode developer stuff
to get x11 since most people don't need or care about this, and most developers
probably wouldn't either. Just for fun I went ahead and did this (1.8GB
download for Xcode). After installing I went to terminal and did a cd into the
X11 directory
cd /usr/X11/bin
and then did
xcalc&
which fires up an x11 calculator. Voiceover couldn't even find the calcualtor
window in the xterminal. Even if it did, it would probably just be a big giant
bitmap as far as VO was concerned. With XCode installed you can do a
man X
to read more about xwindows.
CB
On 2/8/12 10:05 AM, Paul Erkens wrote:
Dear listers,
What I know so far. From what I googled, x11 is software that gives you a
framework with display support, and also a rich set of input devices. Using
x11, a client program can be built. All that is often used to access remote
computers. Where you log in to your mac being the only user, there are other
computers that you don't need to sit behind, if you want to use them. Instead,
you log in over a network or over the internet, and you get time cycles from a
remote machine, allocated to your programs that you use. Not only you, but a
lot of users can be logged in to such a remote machine, each over their own
internet connection, each user running their own programs, simultaneous with
the other users. Such a remote machine is called a time sharing computer.
Correct so far?
Why is x11 installed by the lion installer, and if an application is built
using x11, is it accessible by voiceover then?
Paul.
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