Amen to that! I am glad though, that apple as a company is willing to invest in accessibility as part of their overall market strategy, not like others! I will not say their name! :) There are loads of good efforts every where across platforms that must be recognize, the important is to keep on keeping on and try to make companies understand that accessibility does not have to be an afterthought and so complicated, if it was included in the overall design process from the start, it would be great for everyone and not just to us. RM
On Nov 30, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Mr. L. Alexander wrote: > OK here's the standpoint on two sides of the coin so to speak... > > Our Side (consumers / blind technicians, etc) > > We, as blind computer users have a choice of 3 platforms... Windows, linux > and Mac OS. The primary interfaces are Windows and mac OS. Over the last 6 > years, voiceover has taken on a new life, so effectively still in it's > infancy. Though, for a long time before that, we had access to the macintosh > from OS 7 through 9.2 with outspoken, we now come to rely on voiceover. > > Just remember that at apple, there aren't enough experienced software > developers for accessibility interfacing including enough developers, > testers, infrastructure deployment teams who have experience as visually > impaired or blind people able to make voiceover work the way we need it to. > We do need to keep on top of things. this is where it falls down to apple > developer subscribers who take on beta / alpha versions of mac software and > source to test the systems, implement changes where possible and re-inter > grate the software as packages. > > Yes... voiceover needs work, but so does the rest of OS X to make certain > things work more effectively. take as an example, remote desktop. Remote > desktop is not voiceover compatible, so you cannot interact with the > software. This means that to make this work, it's not a simple case of a few > modifications, it's a total rewrite. Same with logic studio, etc. It's taken > long enough for Digidesign / avid to bring pro-tools to the blind after many > years of being without it. > > so, please do be patient. > > In relation to your problem with the website, etc the issue is down to the > developer of the website, not using standard design principles. each designer > can design and implement their own technologies to a site, even though there > are guidelines which dictate how a website needs to be accessible to blind > and visually impaired users like us. A site may be designed either in pure > html, or through a GUI based system like flash, dreamweaver, etc or other > software which incorporates different window handling functions, modes, > object orientation and data handling techniques.. > > The Manufacturer / developer's side... > > Manufacturers and developers of OEM products don't always get things right, > so yes there's going to be stumbling blocks, it's also a question of how the > companies approach the fixes, modifications or complete reworks / rebuilds of > a product / solution. > > Developers like apple don't just cover hardware and software, they develop > solutions and means to implement workflows for anyone, whether a general > user, professional or enterprise customer needing advanced hardware and > support strategies, products and plans. > > Developers of operating systems such as windows, linux and Mac OS X, etc have > to make the OS Stable, however, in doing this, one change can make an > opposite change somewhere else in the chain of events. Just when you think > you've created a system which is fully running, an integrator may generate a > bug and before it's found and a solution created, it's been shipped out. > > On the part of apple, there's so much pressure on them to roll out products, > that yes there are going to be hickups. I'm not going into everything and > it's ins and outs here as it's not fair on apple for me to do this nor do I > have legal justification. > > Conclusion... > > Let's stick on the apple side of things. OK we have the option of windows > virtual machines for certain instances and yes it's handy to have them where > necessary. If you walk out on an apple product, it shows that you don't have > faith in the product and aren't willing to stand by it, thereby we lose the > battle of accessibility. > > We need to challenge the way that developers of both hardware and software > consider the wider audience of customers as to how the product affects them, > not only that but the needs of the customer who has limitations in terms of > accessibility and functionality. hence implementing access product structures > and getting beta testers like us to work with the products, give feedback and > then roll them out, giving the world the freedom of access. > > Sorry. that's my standpoint. > > lew > > Free Macs For The Blind > > On 30 Nov 2011, at 21:57, Eugenia Firth wrote: > >> Hi Kawal. >> Hey, I just think we need to hope apple keeps selling mucho Macs. My church >> used to only provide access for Windows computers for their online services. >> Suddenly, they offered the Mac version. If our sighted friends keep getting >> Macs, that is all to the good for us. >> >> Gigi >> >> On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >> >>> I will tell you all a story! >>> >>> Last week after telling you how much I wanted to use pages as previously >>> I'd use Microsoft word to read word documents, I had deleted windows off my >>> Mac and it must have been six months or more although I have to use Windows >>> at work as I'm a braille transcriber. Anyhow, I had to go to this website >>> called divorce-online.co.uk and thus prepared to open an account with them. >>> I got to fill in my personal details and got to where I had to put in a >>> password and wanted to continue. >>> >>> I could not navigate the frame nor could I find the button for continue. >>> >>> So I was rather hacked off. >>> >>> Furious that the website would only work with windows i.e. Jaws. >>> >>> So I had to re-install windows just to get to that website. >>> >>> Yesterday I wrote an e-mail to whoever I was dealing with and I told him >>> that the site was not working with the Mac and he should ask the Technical >>> department to get it working with the Mac and explained about Voice Over. >>> >>> So it really hacks me off why I have to open Windows again just to use a >>> website. >>> >>> My friends, we have a long way to go before we can use the Mac for >>> everything. >>> >>> Kawal. >>> On 30 Nov 2011, at 17:59, Rachel Magario wrote: >>> >>>> Congrats Traci! >>>> Just keep on keeping on, someday you will not need to open your windows >>>> ever again unless if it is to use a software that does not have an >>>> equivalent on the mac. >>>> I have not open mine in a whole year! >>>> I only use it sometimes to use a software that does not exist for the mac >>>> yet, but then that is true for me and all my classmates, and everyone >>>> waits for the day it is available in the mac! >>>> Cheers, >>>> Rachel. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 29, 2011, at 8:17 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: >>>> >>>>> We told you so! Nice job. Keep fighting the urge to use Windows. >>>>> On Nov 29, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Traci wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hope y'all don't mind me sharing such an email… >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was on a music site I like to buy from, from time to time. I went >>>>>> there on my Mac and hesitated, thinking I should wait to hop onto my >>>>>> windows. *Grin,* I decided to give it a whirl on my Mac. >>>>>> >>>>>> Looky there! There was a bit of struggle navigating the website, but >>>>>> for the most part it was a more pleasant experience than on my windows >>>>>> machine. I was tickled to search for a track, log in, and purchase said >>>>>> track. >>>>>> >>>>>> The song is now nicely inside iTunes, inside a playlist. :) Loving it! >>>>>> >>>>>> A side note here: ever since I reformatted my iPod Nano to Mac, syncing >>>>>> has been lightning faster. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's a good Mac Day! >>>>>> Traci >>>>>> Sent by Macbook Air Mail >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > Mr. L. Alexander. > Free Macs For The Blind. > E-Mail: freemacsfortheb...@mac-access.net > Direct line: 07936 877500 > > Free Macs For The blind is a charity project supplying older but working > apple macs for blind and visually impaired people throughout the UK FOR FREE! > > Do you have an old unwanted mac, any hardware, software, old PC's, etc or a > copy of outspoken 9.2 you would be willing to donate? please get in touch. > > Mac Access Dot Net; The British Mac Accessibility Network, we're here to help > anybody disabled with anything Apple! > http://www.mac-access.net > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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