Bryan, All I can say is at the end of this entire discussion, it seems we agree. Like I said, send them a note because I did and I hope they give it serious consideration. I would also pay the $300 and probably could be had for less. The less time it takes to scan, also has the benefit of conserving battery on the phone and like I said, there are a number of applications where the gun would be more useful. Also it seems Apple is still interested in using an RF-ID reader to provide some of the same capabilities and that is another area to keep tabs on and even for the folks at Digit-Eyes. On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> Actually, Scott, I'm not wishing for some high priced blind-only solution. > I'd be 100% satisfied if this app worked with a separate laser scanner that I > purchased at my own expense. Could get one of those for $300 or so, and it > would still come out cheaper than the blind-guy solutions. > > Communicating with a Bluetooth laser scanner is easy. Laser bar code > scanners, even ones that work over Bluetooth, are simple serial > communications devices. All of the brains for scanning a code are in the > scanner. Once it sees a code, it simply sends the raw code to the computer > (or iPhone), over a serial connection. In the case of Bluetooth, this > happens over the serial port profile, which has been around in Bluetooth > since the very first spec. > > So, the Digit-Eyes people simply need to open a connection to your Bluetooth > scanner over the serial port protocol, and sit/wait for a code to come in. > They already have lots of code in their program for attempting to extract bar > codes out of the camera images, and then pass the code to a web service that > returns the information. In the case of a Bluetooth scanner, such processing > isn't necessary. The scanner does the work for them. They just receive the > code, and pass it along to their web service. The programming is dirt simple, > compared to the rest of what is in this program. > > I'm glad that they're trying. I think that their bar code database has some > good value. I just don't think that a CCD camera is up to this task. That's > fine. I'll use my own laser scanner. I just want support for it, since the > camera won't work dependably. > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 9:23 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes > > Bryan, > > I am not going to waste my time arguing with you over the issue. I am not > entirely disagreeing with you; however, I think you seem to take a pretty dim > view of these people and tend to be more supportive of the "blind" products > that cost more. My entire point to this discussion is that this may not be > perfect, but it sure as hell is better than what is available, based on cost. > I would gladly spend $30 on a product that is in development and may not even > quite reach the same level as some of the "Blindness" products, then spend > the $1,000 or more for the "Blindness" products. Then that is me and of > course you do what works best for you. > So, we can agree to disagree and move on to other topics, this thread has run > its course as far as I am concerned. > On Jul 10, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: > >> Scott, my opinion is based on a product, not my opinion of a person. If it >> takes $20,000 to plan, develop, test, document, market, and sell a program, >> I charge $30 for it, and sell 700 copies, I've recovered my costs. Those 700 >> people have already bought the program, so won't be buying it again. If it >> will cost me $5,000 to upgrade or modify the app, but I'll basically be >> giving those upgrades away for free, then I'm now $5,000 in the hole. I >> don't go in to business to lose money. >> >> So, saying that there is no incentive to improve a program after everyone >> has already bought it means that there is no financial incentive to upgrade >> a program, and that is a matter of fact. You can argue that all day based on >> emotional feelings about the matter, but no business will lose large sums of >> money to please customers that have already bought the product. If they're >> an individual, their family will complain loudly about the hardship. If >> they're a private corporation, the bank will have words with them. If >> they're a public corporation, their stock holders will vote them off the >> board of directors. It doesn't matter what they say. That's how it is. >> >> Anyway, I'll add my vote for laser scanners support on the phone, not the >> web site. If I wanted to use the web site, there is UPCDatabase, and many >> others. I suppose that they're doing as best as can be accomplished with a >> camera, but a camera is just not designed to work the way with bar codes >> that blind people need to work. Please give us the option of a laser >> scanner. Some of us aren't cheap. We just want the software to work well. >> >> Bryan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:45 AM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes >> >> Nancy, >> >> I neglected to comment on this statement, but I agree and that statement was >> rather insulting. I have to say that as much participation as you and >> others have demonstrated on these e-mail lists, shows a level of commitment. >> I see lots of potential in this application and although I do not have >> one of those bluetooth laser barcode readers, I have thought about it. >> Like I said, for me it would just speed up the process, but then I >> suffer from lack of patients. :) Although now that I have gotten >> better with scanning barcodes with the camera, I have shorten the time >> it takes. However, I see the bluetooth scanner as a way to potentially >> make it easier for vendor operators to take inventory, possibly blind >> people to work in retail doing a number of different tasks, and so >> forth. I see the scanner as a natural extension to DigitEyes. Of >> course I sent you that article that I still see possibilities with. >> I'm so full of ideas, but then some say I'm just full of it. :) >> >> On Jul 9, 2010, at 12:25 AM, Nancy Miracle wrote: >> >> >> Actually, I'd disagree with that last statement. We have a lot of >> incentive to improve it because we want our customers to be happy and if you >> are not happy, we are not happy either. >> >> Nancy Miracle >> Digital Miracles, L.L.C. >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Bryan Smart >> <bryansm...@bryansmart.com> wrote: >> >> >> Yes; I'd be happy if they allowed us to use a Bluetooth laser >> scanner. Even though a separate device would be required for the higher >> quality scans, there are small scanners available. Beyond that, the >> important fact is that the CPU portion (the iPhone), is very mobile. We can, >> today, use a computer with a scanner to identify objects. Carrying a >> computer around the house isn't handy. Carrying an iPhone to do the >> processing, though, isn't that difficult. So, for me, there would still be >> value. >> >> I suggest that they retain the functionality with the built-in >> camera, but allow Bluetooth scanning for those that can purchase a scanner. >> >> I'm not sure that I'm going to pursue a refund, but I'd >> encourage others to withhold their money until the scanning quality has been >> addressed. If you just buy the program as-is, they have little incentive to >> improve it. >> >> Bryan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:31 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes >> >> >> Bryan, >> >> I have used this application successfully with several types of >> packages. I have found cans to be particularly tricky. I can tell you that >> my greatest success seem to be starting out with my 3GS against the item, >> and once I started the scan, slowly back the phone away from the item. >> Again, this worked for me on several items. I have not run all over the >> house grabbing everything with a barcode, so I can't say that I have >> encountered every possible packaging type and this refers to shiny >> packaging, different color combinations, etc. I don't even know for sure if >> these are factors. I agree it would be nice if an external laser barcode >> reader could be used because this would seriously speed up the process of >> scanning items in a store etc. I put that suggestion out there and not sure >> if it will be considered or not. I realize carrying such a device does >> defeat some of the purpose perhaps, but it does allow for additional >> opportunities, such as someone who maintains inventory etc. Perhaps you have >> and if not, share your experiences and suggestion. >> On Jul 8, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Bryan Smart wrote: >> >> > I'm writing to share my experiences with Digit-Eyes. >> > >> > I tried it on my iPhone 4, with several bar codes, and it >> didn't recognize even one of them. I don't mean that the code was located, >> but not recognized. I mean that the code was not even detected as being in >> the image. I'd tap the scan button, and the constant clicking would begin to >> let me know that scanning was in progress. I was scanning in a brightly lit >> room, and the screen curtain was not on. Rotating the containers in front of >> the iPhone camera, with it held about a foot away from them, produced no >> results. I had a sighted friend deliberately place the bar code in view, >> something that I would have not been able to do on my own, and it wasn't >> recognized, either. We just kept trying different angles, and rotating, but >> all we got was more clicking from the Digit-Eyes scanner. >> > >> > I had some experience with creating a system like this >> several years ago. At that time, CCD cameras were not as accurate. Even so, >> for best results, we determined that a 3D laser scanner would be required in >> order for bar codes to be detected in the way that a blind person is likely >> to present them to the scanner: at angles, in shadow, etc. This is the >> technique used by other commercial systems like the ID Mate. I was lead to >> understand that this wasn't a concern with Digit-Eyes, due to the higher >> quality camera in the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. However, based on my results, >> I'd say that this isn't so. >> > >> > Perhaps Digit-Eyes works better with dedicated labels, but, >> if I were >> > to make dedicated labels, I'd just create Braille labels. I >> realize >> > that everyone doesn't read Braille, and so audio labels still >> might be >> > of use to some people. However, the advertised function of >> being able >> > to read bar codes seems to not work, or else, it might work, >> but >> > requires a level of alignment precision that I've not been >> able to >> > achieve. I'm usually quite capable when it comes to reasoning >> through >> > these types of situations, so my conclusion is that I've >> either >> > overlooked something profound, or else the level of alignment >> that is >> > required for a good scan is grater than most blind people will >> > independently obtain without assistance. If you need >> assistance, you >> > might as well ask the sighted person what is on the label. >> *shrug* >> > >> > I'd like to hear the experiences of others. However, I can't >> personally suggest that anyone spend the $30 that is charged for this app if >> they expect to use it as a bar code scanner. >> > >> > Bryan >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to >> macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to >> macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to >> macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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