I am not unfortunately. Everything I get back to test has already gone through our QA department and had the worst of what was wrong with it to begin with already fixed, and I just go over it in the end to make sure everything works the way it's supposed to. So it’s tricky to figure out sometimes if the buttons that don’t expand when I need them to are an issue with the site itself, or more to due with the template we’re using in Squarespace itself, that there’s little we can do about resolving. We’ve had the same issue regarding speed bumps that pop up a x sign letting you know you’re about to leave the site you’re on and go to a third-party site that I’ve finally just chalked up to Safari not knowing how to handle them properly, since I have to constantly restart Voiceover to get them to activate, then they will for a while, then they’ll just sit there and do nothing. However, when testing these links in Chrome, they seem to behave themselves just fine.
> On May 25, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn <jon.c.c...@gmail.com> wrote: > > OK, now I understand better where you’re coming from. I’ve always wondered > about the accessibility of Square space and its equivalence. That is a great > asset that you’re improving it. I guess the next question is are you at all > familiar with the developer tool within the browser that you primarily use be > that safari or Chrome. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 25, 2024, at 3:36 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> Got it! >> >> So, I gather you're more or less up to speed on markup errors that you >> need to know about to do your auditing job. Yes? >> >> Now you're learning HTML in an ostensibly more structured way, i.e. >> using online courses from W3Schools. Can you say why? Do you have a >> specific goal for that knowledge and skillset? >> >> I don't know about you, but I've always thrived better in in person >> classes where I can get guidance and support from a teacher willing to >> understand the strengths and challenges I bring into class. Very likely >> these are not exactly what my classmates bring to the party. Not all >> teachers are good at that, just as sighted colleagues aren't always good >> at understanding the nonvisual framwork from which you operate. However, >> the ones that do can be enormously helpful in guiding one into what to >> study hard and what you can safely ignore for now. A self-guided on line >> curriculum isn't going to give you that unless it happens to be an >> online course built for blind users, such as come from Hadley. >> >> To take it back to your first post, you do need to understand and deal >> with div and class; but, you should be clear which is HTML and which is >> CSS. Because, if you don't, you're just ticking off boxes based on a >> partial understanding. I've never found that kind of partial >> understanding all that useful, personally. >> >> Janina >> >> Jessica Moss writes: >>> Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I???ve been sent either through >>> squarespace that haven???t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have >>> to recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, >>> links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and >>> collapse when they???re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they >>> do just that. If this isn???t happening, I audit my findings in a >>> spreadsheet in excel and send my findings back. So there???s been a goal >>> in place for me for years for me to learn HTML and I???ve been simply >>> trying to navigate my way through w3schools, but since the main things >>> I???d be needing to focus on appear to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt >>> text to links that just say dreaded things like ???click here,??? ???learn >>> more??? etc., adding alt text to a completely blank Iframe, that most >>> sighted people don???t think needs alt text, because to them it just looks >>> like a window they can see through to find what???s imbedded into the site, >>> and last but not least, figuring out what???s not making an expandable >>> button expand the way it needs to be, or if it is, why it???s not reading >>> out why it???s expanded. >>> So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of >>> what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work >>> with in order to learn to make that happen. >>> >>>>> On May 25, 2024, at 2:45???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Jessica: >>>> >>>> This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's >>>> helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would >>>> like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info, >>>> etc., etc. >>>> >>>> My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted >>>> colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind >>>> folks. That's true in digital environs just as it is in physical >>>> environs. >>>> >>>> Pointing this out takes me to my first response to you about certain >>>> HTML elements, specifically the div element. It's just a container. You >>>> can deploy it to contain anything you want, actually. The sighted world >>>> loves it for the look and feel opportunities it provides. >>>> >>>> Other HTML elements are clearly structural, e.g. the list elements you >>>> were pointed to in this thread. Yes, we blind folks tend to love the >>>> more structural elements simply because we benefit from clearly >>>> organized and well marked up content. I suppose most of us wish we saw >>>> that more often, but I digress. >>>> >>>> The take-away so far is the notion of containers. The div element isn't >>>> the only one, but it's widely used, so understanding that it's just a >>>> bucket is important, imo. >>>> >>>> Next I want to share an architectural overview with you. In my >>>> understanding there are three important code streams in most web content >>>> as follows: >>>> >>>> 1.) HTML >>>> >>>> This is the structural content organizing code defined by the WHAT >>>> Working Group (and the World Wide Web Consortium). The "source of >>>> truth" for HTML is this publication from 10 years ago: >>>> >>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/ >>>> >>>> >>>> More useful to you is the Mozilla Developer Network documentation of >>>> HTML 5 and how to use the various HTML 5 elements. Over the years I've >>>> found that power HTML developers refer to the Mozilla Developer Network >>>> documentation pages when discussing pros and cons of particular HTML >>>> codeing approaches. The MDN is here: >>>> >>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ >>>> >>>> >>>> There's lots of great help there including "Getting Started" guidance. >>>> There's also a Wikipedia page for MDN you might want to visit to >>>> understand the HTML world we now live in a bit better by way of >>>> acquiring a contextual understanding of the coding work you've set out >>>> to learn. >>>> >>>> Note that MDN also provides guidance on the following architectural >>>> coding streams, so it really is a great one-stop source of info for you! >>>> >>>> 2.) CSS >>>> >>>> In the classical understanding of web content organization, and still >>>> the very much preferred approach for well developed web content, >>>> Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) is the code layer responsible for the look >>>> and feel of web content. CSS remains actively in development. As a blind >>>> coder you will at least want to understand the basics of CSS, but it's >>>> nuances are likely something you'll leave to sighted colleagues. >>>> >>>> The "source of truth" for CSS is a large corpus of specifications from >>>> the W3C's CSS Working Group whose home page is here: >>>> >>>> https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/specs.en.html >>>> >>>> >>>> And, a more user-friendly introduction to the CSS world is provided here: >>>> >>>> https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Overview.en.html >>>> >>>> On a personal note let me briefly digress to comment on how I recently >>>> used CSS on one of my consulting contracts. I was developing a document >>>> with my contractor that included quotations from documents published >>>> online. However, my colleagues weren't always sufficiently careful >>>> making edits to our jointly developed document. So, I colorized all >>>> content contained in the HTML <Q> tag dark red with the comment that we >>>> could quote more, or we could quote less in our document; but, we could >>>> not change what the published document we were quoting from actually >>>> said! >>>> >>>> 3.) Javascript >>>> >>>> While there are perfectly good HTML elements for interactivity in web >>>> content, the interactive layer of web content is usually accomplished by >>>> javascript, often denoted simply as "js." There isn't a source of truth >>>> I know of for you regarding javascript. However, there's plenty good >>>> guidance about using js in more accessible friendly ways on the web. >>>> Here's such an article from the MDN that sums all this up: >>>> >>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Accessibility/CSS_and_JavaScript >>>> >>>> Lastly, let me simply comment that you don't need to change your >>>> operating system to learn HTML, CSS and even javascript. While I would >>>> tend to agree that you're likely to end up using Linux if you become a >>>> power web content developer, that day need not be today. You've >>>> sufficiently complexity in your world just now to grapple with. >>>> >>>> Let me add only that the point to all that is the power of the command >>>> line as opposed to the point and click graphical environment. Windows >>>> and MacOS provide their own p[owerful command line environments, >>>> especially most recent versions of Microsoft's Power Shell. Also, you >>>> can comfortably run Linux on a Windows computer using the Microsoft >>>> provided Web Subsystem for Linux (WSL). On a Mac you'll likely want to >>>> establish a virtual machine using VMware Fusion, though many people on >>>> this list are perfectly comfortable with the Apple Terminal and don't >>>> see a need for a virtual command line environment. >>>> >>>> You will, though, want good tooling on your end. Currently, vscode (or >>>> vscodium on Linux) seems to be the preferred power user's application of >>>> choice for web content development. You'll especially also want to >>>> become comfortable with linting and debugging tools like validatornu >>>> (which checks the "validity" of your HTML). >>>> >>>> hth!! >>>> Janina >>>> >>>> >>>> Jessica Moss writes: >>>>> I???m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been >>>>> having one of my coworkers help when he???s had some spare time. >>>>> However, with him having completely usable vision, and trying to explain >>>>> to me how certain portions of this work, divs and classes being a big >>>>> thing, that???s where this becomes interesting, and makes me wonder how >>>>> often will I use these, and should I just leave styling type elements >>>>> such as these to someone who has more knowledge and can actually see >>>>> where they need to go. >>>>> He???s told me that it???s like putting items into a folder when dealing >>>>> with html divs/classes, but that???s as far as I???ve gotten, considering >>>>> the fact that while I understand the concept of having a physical folder, >>>>> where you???d have deviders separating your homework assignments from >>>>> your tests and quizzes for example, how would I style an existing >>>>> template I???ve already started building in that same manner, without >>>>> being able to see it, and know that I???ve done it correctly? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD3A6A-444D-495D-BB56-C06B0C46342D%40gmail.com. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) >>>> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka >>>> >>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>> >>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ZlIx4jeLt5Zy7HLM%40rednote.net. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B5FF3BCC-E507-455E-8B24-494A70482918%40gmail.com. >> >> -- >> >> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers) >> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka >> >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >> >> Linux Foundation Fellow >> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/ >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ZlI9oqJmue_RaBQH%40rednote.net. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/86BFA070-4ACE-4938-A93D-61D4A357E964%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0439C94D-F43A-47EF-8330-E9B33075F318%40gmail.com.
