Hi, Anders: Two comments ...
1.) You can download a Windows 10 iso image without first purchasing a license here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10ISO I expect there are parallel sites for languages other than English. The above is English, but the iso you get is capable of configuration for multiple languages. BootCamp can use the iso you get this way for the installation, and Windows will happily install without a key. There's a checkbox early in the installation process where you can note you have no key. You will have Narrator. Once installed, you'll have limited functionality, as best I can tell. You can buy the license directly from the Windows Store using an installation you create this way. I did find the price steep, however. I was offered a Windows 10 64bit Pro license for $199 USD. I got a DVD and an OEM license via Amazon for $151. 2.) The flavors of Linux currently available via Windows 10 are documented here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10 So, far I've not seen any announcement of Debian support, that that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. However, as you probably know, Ubuntu is fairly close to Debian in how it's managed, e.g. the use of apt for package management. And, you're not limited to one Linux distribution. At the moment Microsoft has three available, and you could certainly install all three, should you wish. hth Janina Anders Holmberg writes: > Hi! > I actually want to buy a windows 10 license just to try this out myself. > I am not familiar with fedora at all. > Am sadly a bit prejudiced about other distros of linux. > Debian or nothing else *lol*. > BUt i guess they are more similar to each other than different. > /A > > > 14 jan. 2018 kl. 13:03 skrev 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > > <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>: > > > > Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking. > > > > Right now I'm playing with Ubuntu under Microsoft Windows in my BootCamp > > partition. Who'd have ever thought of such a thing even ten years ago? > > I'll wait for the release of Fedora under Windows WS, as that's the > > distro I'll want to keep being that I'm far more familiar with Fedora > > than Ubuntu. > > > > Anders Holmberg writes: > >> Hi! > >> Some of the virtualbox gui interface is accessible but i wouldn’t use that > >> if i were you. > >> THere are commands for virtualbox from terminal so i guess you just ssh > >> into your mac and do the configuring and then use it from the mac itself > >> when all is setup. > >> /A > >> > >>> 13 jan. 2018 kl. 17:09 skrev 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>: > >>> > >>> Hi, Anders: > >>> > >>> Yeah, I'm starting to be tired of handing VMware a few hundred $$ every > >>> few years. > >>> > >>> I'm seriously thinking of switching to VirtualBox. I expect a steeper > >>> learning curve, but more consistent maintanance. > >>> > >>> Anders Holmberg writes: > >>>> Hi Janina! > >>>> Yeah typically i also have a tight budget this month. > >>>> I had to pay 150 bucks for repairing the display of my moto g5 and i > >>>> think i was stupid leaving it for repair as i have a nokia 8 now too. > >>>> Therefore i can’t buy the upgrade for vmware fusion. > >>>> Very frustrating. > >>>> /A > >>>> > >>>>> 12 jan. 2018 kl. 07:46 skrev 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > >>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, Anders: > >>>>> > >>>>> I suspect that option might still be there for the paid version. It > >>>>> certainly was last time I used VMware, which was version 8.5.0 > >>>>> > >>>>> All I'm saying is that the option is not there in the 30day trial status > >>>>> of VMware 10.1.1. > >>>>> > >>>>> I upgraded the other day, through a couple iterations as directed by the > >>>>> VMware tool itself, from 8.5.0 all the way to version 10.1.1, but I did > >>>>> not opt to pay for a license as my funds are typically tight early > >>>>> January. > >>>>> > >>>>> Janina > >>>>> > >>>>> Anders Holmberg writes: > >>>>>> Hi! > >>>>>>> From what i understand you should be able to move the bootcamp to a > >>>>>>> virtual machine. > >>>>>> But i haven’t done this so i can’t say for sure but when i pressed > >>>>>> command n i found a table with a lot of options. > >>>>>> One of these options was to use a bootcamp partition. > >>>>>> /A > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> 11 jan. 2018 kl. 00:46 skrev Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk>: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Janina, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Well I’m tired of this and I’m going to get some sleep. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> My MacBook Air 2013 uses a driver Cirrus Audio CS4208 X64 driver. I > >>>>>>> have found several Apple resources then I found this Microsoft > >>>>>>> resource. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/windows-10-and-macbook-air-external-speaker/332a9694-3636-456e-bb55-4894bd066dd8 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> <https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/windows-10-and-macbook-air-external-speaker/332a9694-3636-456e-bb55-4894bd066dd8> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Where as Apple tell us to get the latest driver this article suggests > >>>>>>> a roll back may solve the issue. I’ve tried downloading from a site > >>>>>>> but meet a graphical challenge. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Let us know if you crack it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Gena > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> “Blindness is not a handicap, it is something I have always lived > >>>>>>> with. The real handicap is the prejudices people have about > >>>>>>> blindness.” > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Michael Hinson 2011 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 21:07, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk > >>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello Janina, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Well sound has died via my headset too. I didn’t get to the device > >>>>>>>> manager to see the driver status. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> What the ….. is going on? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gena > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Call: M0EBP > >>>>>>>> Loc: IO83PS > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 20:50, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Well good but bad news. I’ve been using my MacBook Air’s bootcamp > >>>>>>>>> partition for about an hour. I’ve lost audio. Just plugged in my > >>>>>>>>> USB headset that I used to install Windows. It made the new > >>>>>>>>> hardware sound through the headset and NVDA announced installing > >>>>>>>>> software for the new device. So I have lost sound via it’s own > >>>>>>>>> speakers and have sound through an independent sound card. So you > >>>>>>>>> were right it’s a driver issue. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Now why should Windows mess about with a driver while it is in use? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Gena > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Georgina Joyce > >>>>>>>>> Applied Psychologist > >>>>>>>>> Training and Coaching. > >>>>>>>>> Because individuals of groups matter! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 15:52, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk > >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I think the blind keystrokes might be: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Open the run dialog box: > >>>>>>>>>> cmd r, i.e. Windows r. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If you have a cd/DVD version the USB will be assigned E:\ if not > >>>>>>>>>> it is likely to be d:\. I don’t know the path structure of the > >>>>>>>>>> unzipped package so you’ll need to know it by exploring it on the > >>>>>>>>>> Mac side of things. Going by the article your run command should > >>>>>>>>>> be: > >>>>>>>>>> e:\windowsSupport\setup.ext > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Windows will want you to allow changes so you need: > >>>>>>>>>> opt Y i.e. alt y. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Then the article suggests you might need to click continue, so you > >>>>>>>>>> might need to: > >>>>>>>>>> opt c i.e. alt c. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> You might need to do a: > >>>>>>>>>> opt f i.e alt f. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> To finish. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Then a opt y i.e. alt y. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Answering yes to a reboot. Then hold on to something that gives > >>>>>>>>>> you security to see what happens. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> HTH > >>>>>>>>>> Gena > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> “Why not?” > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Michael Hinson 2011 > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 15:16, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk > >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Good to hear from you too. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Yes the first thing that needs to be done is to install the > >>>>>>>>>>> bootcamp drivers. You needed to go to the system tray and > >>>>>>>>>>> bootcamp hangs out there. There must be a way of triggering the > >>>>>>>>>>> install from the run dialog. If that is the sate of the machine > >>>>>>>>>>> like installs with Narrator support a USB headset would provide > >>>>>>>>>>> audio. Did you use a USB headset that has it’s own sound card for > >>>>>>>>>>> the installation? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Looking on the web I think you should be able to run the > >>>>>>>>>>> setup.exe from the run dialog. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> See here: > >>>>>>>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204923 > >>>>>>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204923> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Gena > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Call: M0EBP > >>>>>>>>>>> Loc: IO83PS > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 13:48, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > >>>>>>>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's what I need to check and confirm. And, if not > >>>>>>>>>>>> already > >>>>>>>>>>>> installed, get them installed. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> All I know is that that box was checked when I started the > >>>>>>>>>>>> process. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Whether it succeeded, or was somehow interrupted or aborted, I > >>>>>>>>>>>> have no > >>>>>>>>>>>> way to know. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Jonathan Cohn writes: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you install the bootcamp drivers? I am not sure exactly how > >>>>>>>>>>>>> do this, but I understand that sound will not work correctly > >>>>>>>>>>>>> until the bootcamp drivers are installed once the OS has been > >>>>>>>>>>>>> installed. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonathan Cohn > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2018, at 5:46 AM, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, I lost sound on my bootcamp install of Windows > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 and blamed it on activation of jaws. The volume was muted > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> twice. I have removed and reinstalled Windows and installed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA but not really played with it. So I hope I don’t > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience the muting of sound again. I’m sure someone on the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BCAB list also had problems too. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, so have you tried Narrator? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did find a command line to change the mute status but I only > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried it once and it did not return sound, reasoning that I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistyped or wasn’t in the right place to enter such a command. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The command was: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nircmd.exe mutesysvolume 0 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck and let us know how you get on. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gena > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Georgina Joyce > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Applied Psychologist > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Training and Coaching. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because individuals of groups matter! > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 03:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering whether it makes sense to doctor a BootCamp > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> install of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 10 from within VMware. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've encountered the situation where my headphone jack is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> refusing to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work for my existing BootCamp install of Windows 10. It > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked for a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brief while, then stopped. Nothing I've tried has brought it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I need to do is to apply Apple's BootCamp drivers. These > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been installed via the BootCamp process, of course, but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to verify that. Certainly, at the moment there's no > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sound from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows, though I've verified there is a working installation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've actually poked around in it with NVDA. It literally died > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on me as I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was trying to login with my BootCamp drivers at hand on a USB > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, my question. Can I apply these drivers if I load up my > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BootCamp > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> install within the latest VMware? I'm presuming it reads > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apfs. But I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder whether it would go silent the same way, or perhaps > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it might > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be using different drivers at that level. Anyone know? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All help much appreciated. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Janina > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Janina Sajka > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/><http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initiative (WAI) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this list, or if you feel that a member's post is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this list, or if you feel that a member's post is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can > >>>>>>>>>>>>> reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your > >>>>>>>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>>>>>>>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Janina Sajka > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow > >>>>>>>>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility > >>>>>>>>>>>> Initiative (WAI) > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the > >>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >>>>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, > >>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than > >>>>>>>>>>>> posting on the list itself. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can > >>>>>>>>>>>> reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your > >>>>>>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > >>>>>>>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >>>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, > >>>>>>>>>>> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than > >>>>>>>>>>> posting on the list itself. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > >>>>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner > >>>>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at > >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please > >>>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on > >>>>>>>>>> the list itself. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > >>>>>>>>>> mark at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner > >>>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please > >>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on > >>>>>>>>> the list itself. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > >>>>>>>>> mark at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner > >>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to > >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please > >>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the > >>>>>>>> list itself. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > >>>>>>>> mark at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is > >>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > >>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > >>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > >>>>>>> itself. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > >>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is > >>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > >>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > >>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > >>>>>> itself. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > >>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is > >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>>> --- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> > >>>>> Janina Sajka > >>>>> > >>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow > >>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > >>>>> > >>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > >>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures > >>>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>>> Visionaries list. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > >>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > >>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > >>>>> itself. > >>>>> > >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark > >>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara > >>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>>> > >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>>> --- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>>> Visionaries list. > >>>> > >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>>> > >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark > >>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara > >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>>> > >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>>> --- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Janina Sajka > >>> > >>> Linux Foundation Fellow > >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > >>> > >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > >>> > >>> -- > >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >>> Visionaries list. > >>> > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>> > >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark > >>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara > >>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >>> > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "MacVisionaries" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > >> -- > >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > >> Visionaries list. > >> > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >> > >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark > >> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara > >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > >> > >> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "MacVisionaries" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > Visionaries list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - > > you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you > can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
