This rant and any follow up should be referred to the BS mailing list as it is way, way off topic.To join the BS list, send an email to: vo-bs-requ...@lists.hofstader.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject line. "
To those of us who feel that screen readers will always provide second class (or worse) support for applications designed to be visual, we're only touching the tip of the inaccessibility iceberg. I believe that in the next few years, led by Apple and things like gesture based interfaces and 2D ways to explore the screen, that we'll start hearing 3D audio and wil be able to use a haptic device to drive the system, which will make using a computer much more efficient for us. The real accessibility challenges come outside of our technology - in stores, malls, museums and other places we would enjoy if the access was more than the pitiful excuses that places that claim accessibility actually provide. Hell, we still don't have a standard for reading the label on prescription bottles, how can we expect to find the Post Raisin Bran independently while at the Publix? I was in a mall here in St. Petersburg, Florida (I've learned to use the buses to get there on my own but it's a 90 minute process each way rather than 20 minutes if my wife is available to drive). I wanted a simple item: a black turtleneck shirt size L. The store was crowded and I had to wait over a half hour for the clerk to take about 20 seconds to grab the item and then check out. How do we solve this problem? The answer is not "more clerks" as the stores won't pay for that. At the Cambridgeside Galleria in Cambridge, MA, the mall does provide special helpers that people with disabilities can work along with to get their shopping done even if they want to go to a bunch of stores and maybe even grab a slice of pizza or something else in the food court. This isn't exactly "independence" but it is a nice service to have when shopping alone. I guess I look back at JAWS 3.2, the version we were selling when I joined HJ, and see how far we've come in so many areas. Computer accessibility pretty much still sucks when compared to our sighted friends but said accessibility is much better than out there in the world of real rather than virtual objects. cdh On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:40 AM, Kaare Dehard wrote: > Right you are Nick. The nature of adaptive technologies is prosthetic. > Regardless of our choices, it is not a completely 100% fit. When choosing an > operating system, your work environment, you have to decidewhat kind of > chafing you can live with. I've decided mac for my own reasons. Not only does > the screen reader come out of the box, it does what I want and if I do get > adventurous and screw up which has happened from time to time, I can > independantly re-setup the system without assistance. That in and of itself > is worth a lot to me personally thus the switch. > On 2009-12-11, at 5:09 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Technically, this is called Macvisionaries. Which would seem to me as if >> this is a Mac list where visually impaired people can discuss things about >> the Mac, not necessarily VoiceOver. >> >> Furthermore, the manual probably provides information on what you've already >> asked where the iPhone is concerned. I definitely don't try to shove it down >> people's throat, because if they don't have a need to switch or aren't >> frustrated enough with their current operating system, that's great. More >> power to you. I personally would never go back to the Windows due to my >> frequent crashes, but that's my opinion and only mine. I'm not forcing >> people to think that the Mac is so much better, because the fact is that >> operating systems have different advantages and disadvantages when comparing >> them. Frankly, I don't even agree to compare operating systems. An operating >> system is its own system, and it works differently than what you might be >> used to. No one should, at any point, expect their old operating system to >> behave like the new one simply because they have gotten used to the way >> their previous system performed. It's just like the situation with the >> iPhone. The iPhone or the Macintosh is not the perfect solution for >> everyone, nor is any operating system. Some are happy with paying >> manufacturers for screen access technology and software maintenance >> agreements, and that's great. If it works well for you, why switch? Though >> the Mac has a powerful screen reader which surpasses the commercially >> available screen readers in my opinion, what you already own might work well >> for you. In this case, there is certainly no need to switch to another >> operating system or phone just to save money. I'm only really mentioning the >> Mac because this is the Macvisionaries after all. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:15 AM, Mark Gilland wrote: >> >>> Guies, let's get back to voiceover, I don't frankly wanna hear how one >>> person made their wife bitch about x y and zed, nor would! make 'em do >>> such. >>> I know yhou're kidding but, come on, I'll admit I got a bit off topic with >>> the IPhone stuff and IPod stuff, but, that was only cause I didn't know >>> where else to turn, being I didn't know another list, but that is why I >>> asked. I don't wanna start a war flame here, but really guies come on. I >>> think this was a really interesting thread at first, and being I'm notta >>> mod, whom I! to say it needs to die, I'm not saying to stop it, that's not >>> my decision, however, don't you think, excuse me for saying: that this is >>> beingging to really stray from voice over and go more to an argument. Face >>> it, if a person likes the Mac and is useful with it? fine, if not, then >>> don't rave to 'em about it. You can educate them on why you like it, but >>> if >>> they don't wanna hear it, then dammit? they don't wanna hear it. Same >>> other >>> way vice versa. Sorry, maybe I'm just in a real fowel mooed tonight, but >>> this is immature in my opinion. It's one thing to try to educate someone >>> on >>> the other OS, but donj't force it down their throat. Not saying you are, >>> but, just... I dono... just... don't. OK? >>> Really anooied, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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