Tim, well said, only other thing I’d add is remember that Apple hires blind engineers as well. I know one myself and it encourages me that blind engineers are directly involved in the accessibility effort at apple. It’s one thing when a company gives accessibility lip service but it’s another when they hire people in the trenches to help develop the product. Microsoft for all their faults is another company who especially lately from what I’ve heard has been picking up blind engineering talent and I know of a few who have worked there for many years.
There are several technology companies who come to mind who do well in this area. Apple being the king, Microsoft improving, Cisco, Juniper and increasingly amazon. So I think accessibility awareness is improving, somewhat. Long way to go but at least the direction is right. Apple hasn’t let me down yet accessibility wise in recent years I don’t expect that will change and I hope I’m right. From: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> Reply-To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Date: Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 12:13 AM To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? Hi All, Just to put my 2¢ worth in here. Apple's dedication to accessibility is proven, and is not going away. I've personally spoke with Apple engineers, and other Apple folks regarding accessibility and I can assure you that it is definitely considered when designing or redesigning products. So, the VoiceOver experience might change slightly, or as mentioned by some in this thread, it may just be a different gesture that activates or deactivates VO. It will be tested by necessary users as to its functionality and, it will most likely work just fine. The function keys on the older iMac and eMac computers had breaks every set of four function keys, so f5 was super easy to find. All the Apple keyboards nowadays have all their function keys stuck right beside each other, and I got used to it and can still turn VO on and off easily. Wait until you see the animal before you butcher it. Later... Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On Jun 10, 2016, at 20:52, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: Most of us normally do but I thought I’d start that little rumour and see what happened. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Miller Sent: Saturday, 11 June 2016 2:50 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? Lol I forgot about the potential of Siri. Sent from my iPhone 6S Plus On Jun 10, 2016, at 10:47 PM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: Hey what about the rumour that the new apple notebooks are going to have this touch bar but also siri which will allow you to turn voiceover on by just saying hey siri! Wont that be great. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall Sent: Saturday, 11 June 2016 1:07 PM To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? I've tried to stay away from all the speculative threads, but I wanted to remind everyone that this isn't Apple's first rodeo. Plus, this is all over rumors, backed up by a few images; we have no real idea what will happen in the future. What if this is all false, and it doesn't happen? What if this bar has taptic feedback, so that touching it simulates touching keys? What if the keys are there, but each is a screen instead of plastic? But let's assume the worst: a smooth, glass surface that provides no feedback when touched, unless VoiceOver is on. Why the automatic assumptions that Apple will forget about VoiceOver? Remember the rumors that flew when the Apple Watch was presented, and didn't use its internal speaker on stage? People jumped to the conclusion that it lacked such a speaker and thus would be totally inaccessible. The Watch on my wrist tells me that was a false alarm. Or when, you know, Apple pretty much invented screen-reading on a device with no buttons, in the iPod Touch and then iPhone? Or when it included great VoiceOver features in the (smooth and featureless) glass of the Apple TV 4 remote? Or when it made sure that there was some form of audible feedback when booting into an encrypted system, even though VoiceOver couldn't be used at the login prompts? But let's throw out history and assume Apple does the thing some people think they will: they make this Mac, and don't include any way of toggling VoiceOver on. No simple trackpad gesture, no holding the command key and tapping twice anywhere on the bar, nothing whatsoever. In that incredibly unlikely case, you simply don't buy the newest Mac until a software update fixes the problem. I really don't understand the negativity here, is all I'm saying. On Jun 10, 2016, at 18:09, Daniel Miller <miller...@gmail.com> wrote: If they replace the function keys with the touch sensitive bar,I along with probably most of this list will lose a lot of respect for them as a company. I understand that they're supposed to integrate touch ID into this bar, but there are several other places on the machine itself or touch ID could be integrated without having to lose physical function keys. I have a feeling the Tim Cook led Apple is valuing form over function, which for people with disabilities, isn't always the best idea. Lenovo attempted this no function key idea with one of their machines, and guess what? It absolutely bombed, even for people that did not have a disability. Sent from my iPhone 6S Plus On Jun 10, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote: Honestly, totally agreed. --- Christopher Gilland JAWS Certified, 2016. Training Instructor. clgillan...@gmail.com Phone: (704) 256-8010. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Miller" <miller...@gmail.com> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 5:57 PM Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? I think the touch bar is stupid, enough said. Sent from my iPhone 6S Plus On Jun 10, 2016, at 5:01 PM, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote: Hi there, Rumor has it that the soon forth coming Mac book pros will feature a touch bar instead of function keys on the keyboard. This raises an interesting question. Assuming that Voice Over is turned off on any one of the new Mac book Pros that a blind user goes up to, how is a blind person supposed to turn on Voice Over if there are no physical function keys but instead a touch bar? I think maybe I can guess. If a blind person needs to turn on Voice OVer, it should be possible by pressing VO+touch anyware on the bar and that should do it. Or else, triple tap the bar to turn Voice OVer on. I can almost imagine the e-mails now. Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!!!!! -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Have a great day, Alex Hall mehg...@icloud.com -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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