Bo Peng wrote:
Hi, all,
Both the 1.4.x installer versions have flaws and it is to be expected
that the newer release (Uwe) would incorporate more fixes.
The Angus installer
is not going to reflect bug improvements without an active
maintainer and Uwe has stated he doesn't have time to maintain
both versions.
My exact point is that since two maintainers are both busy, they
should try to work together, and maintain a single official version.
This will be better for them, and for the users.
Angus is retired and has stated more than once that he does
not want to make a commitment to further develop WinLyx. He
prefers to occasionally offer help when and where he pleases.
Besides there is a basic clash between Angus and Uwe over
requiring admin installs for *lyx* itself while not meaning
a *lyx* installation includes all of the helper apps, which
may or may not require admin rights.
As of the differences between the two versions,
Uwe's installer doesn't permit non-administrative installations,
Frankly, windows XP users have got used to install whatever
application with administrate privilege. My friends complain a lot
that they can not do anything with their IT-maintained PCs, and in the
mean time, enjoyed sending emails to the IT guys: hi, please install
lyx for me.
There is no problem with either installer for LyX 1.3.7 on
machines where the user has admin rights. Home users or
professors but usually not students or lower level corporate
employees. The latter category will need help to install LyX
with the helper apps. But LyX can be used without Latex. If
LyX can be installed with non-admin rights _and_ the rest of
helper apps exist already on the network usually LyX can use
them without having admin rights.
> mean time, enjoyed sending emails to the IT guys: hi, please install
> lyx for me.
If you have your own dedicated machine, then non-admin LyX can
be installed without IT guys involved. It seems to me that you
might mean {lyx plus helper apps} which probably would require
IT guys help. There are two different situations, one requiring
IT guys with admin-rights and the other a non-admin install
performed by users with expertise which points to Angus' installer.
nor support windows 98, according to its documentation. The official
installer does, but appears to lack a dedicated maintainer.
The user base for Win98 which is deprecated, is still larger than Mac
and Linux combined for client desktops (not servers).
What is making this difference? Uwe seems to be using Angus' lyx.exe.
Uwe's installer requires searching the Windows registry in
a way that is avoided by the Angus installer. Uwe likes this.
So, merge the two versions so you only need to test one.
Angus and Uwe both seem disinclined to do this.
So your criteria for "official" appears to be ease of use for
incompetent new users
Please be careful about using incompetent, since your are saying that
I was incompetent to handle the official installer last week.
I think that competence comes from experience, many installations
under varied circumstances, which would include non-admin installs.
Also education, such as reading the supporting documentation, will
contribute to competence and avoid wasting time.
So a typical Windows LyX new user has neither experience and can't
be bothered to peruse Readmes and install guides.
Before Uwe created the LyXWinInstaller, one needed to download
and install the separate helper programs for LyX. I have already
quoted warnings from both Miktex and Python docs which stressed
that the user doing the install needed admin rights for Miktex
or that Python would have limitations in a non-admin install.
All the readmes for Uwe's installers (1.3.7 and 1.4.x) contain
a warning that one can't install LyX without admin-rights.
Bo wrote: "Just helped another guy to install lyx/win on his
windows machine, again frustrated. Briefly,
1. download everything, install, until we are told that
miktex can not be installed without adminstrative priveledge."
SH: Why did you choose to install as non-admin? The most
likely answer to me seems that your experience didn't indicate
that there would be a problem. Nor does it appear that reading
the docs provided you with the other element of competence,
education from reading the manual.
Bo: 2. "log out/in as administrator, install, lyx/configure
fails to start."
SH: So if the option as logging in as administrator was
available to you, why do you consider it competent to bypass
this step by starting off with a non-admin install? IMO, it
is just the type of mistake a new user to LyX would have made.
That refers to *installation* of LyX, not to using Lyx itself.
Depending on the order of installing the programs, it is
possible to install Python before Miktex. The non-admin install
of Python has limitations. When any program is aborted during
the installation it may well not uninstall itself properly.
Did you make sure to see that Python was uninstalled (if indeed
it had been installed previously) so that Python would be
reinstalled with admin-rights and without limitations?
Next, the Win1.4.x installer is still beta and there is a list
of potential problems at http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/LyX14x
so it is prudent/competent to install the LyX1.3.7 version.
I think you made a poor choice in that regard because you say
that the Uwe WinLyx installer works very well (with admin-rights).
Hence you wouldn't be reporting your frustration if you had
chosen to use 1.3.7 (either version) which is also best for
a new user, because is has fewer bugs so that the new user is
not in a position to have to decide if it is his user error or
a future fix for 1.4.x.
If the shoe fits wear it,
cyberdiction
