Re: Allow empty line ... I know

[Daniel]

On 2020-08-15 18:42, Daniel wrote:

On 2020-08-15 18:39, Daniel wrote:

On 2020-08-15 18:20, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:

On 8/15/20 12:05 PM, Daniel wrote:

On 2020-08-15 17:52, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:

On 8/15/20 11:30 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 2020-08-15 17:22, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 15 août 2020 17:09:45 GMT+02:00, Daniel <xraco...@gmx.de> a écrit :

On 2020-08-15 16:58, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Short answer from my phone : this is not an empty line issue. There

is a problem reported about space above formula. I have not looked
atit yet.


box case.

More on that when I return.

Concerning the bullet case, we could handle it like I did the proof

Okay, I would have thought that both of these problems are handled
(and
correctly so) if a line (not a paragraph!) before a display
formula was

--
Daniel

allowed to be empty. Because that seems exactly what LaTeX is doing.

The spacing is created by LaTeX, not by the user, if I understand
correctly.

\item.

In LaTeX the user creates the spacing by adding an extra empty line or

paragraph break immediately before the displayed formula. So there is
the space for that break in the LaTeX.

As JMarc said, I think the problem here is just that LyX doesn't display the extra space about the display formula. Basically, what we have is a

The space does not take care of the bullet/numbering. An empty line
would take care of both problems. If the line contains a character,
then LyX does exactly the right thing. So, I thought allowing an empty
line in this case would make LyX do exactly the right thing. So, LyX
would do this: remove an empty line only if it is empty by current
standards *or contains a display formula* (which actually could kind

of qualify as non-empty since the line continues with a display formula).

The problem is that the following is perfectly valid LaTeX:

test test

$$a=b$$

And, as a general rule, we want to allow the user to write that in LyX
if they want to do so. Or, as people here will sometimes say: Don't try
to outsmart the user. This is a pretty fundamental LyX principle---one
it took me a while to appreciate---and magically removing empty lines
before display formulas violates it. So that's no go.

The problem, as I see it, is that it is very easy to write what's above
when what you wanted was:

test test
$$a = b$$

and LyX doesn't give enough indication of this difference. So we either
need to display more space or, as you suggest, to display a pilcrow in
the former case. The latter is probably not terribly easy to do, though,
since the pilcrow would attach to the paragraph before the one in which
the displayed formula lives. But maybe there's something else we could
display in the space above the displayed equation, just to make it more
obvious.

test test

$$a=b$$

and

test test
x
$$a=b$$



The same with

\item

$$a=b$$

and

\item x

$$a=b$$

That's why I thought an empty line would be the solution.

I agree. I suggested to add an empty line in LyX not to remove it in the LaTeX output. The LaTeX spacing seems to behave exactly as if an empty line contained a character, i.e. in the spacing between test test and the display formula is exactly the same. And adding a special character to the empty line might be easier too. I take back my pilcrow suggestion though because this would be an empty line *without* a paragraph break. Maybe a right pointing arrow or so might be more suitable.

Okay, I just noticed another argument for the empty line: If there is an bullet/numbering, it would be odd to show it in the space without the possibility to click right after it to add text to it. Instead one would have to click before the display formula...

--
Daniel

#LyX 2.4 created this file. For more info see https://www.lyx.org/
\lyxformat 598
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\begin_local_layout
Style Standard
        Copystyle               Standard
        Freespacing             1
End

Style Enumerate
        Copystyle               Enumerate
        Freespacing             1
End
\end_local_layout
\language english
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\begin_body

\begin_layout Standard
No break after...
 (same spacing in LyX and LaTeX output)
\begin_inset Formula 
\begin{align*}
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\end{align*}

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\end_layout

\begin_layout Standard
Break after...
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With text...
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(Unimportant intermezzo for getting an indented paragraph...)
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In the attached document, I have allowed Freespacing in the Standard and Enumerate styles. With this I can get exactly the result I wold expect in the LyX work area (except that there is a space in the empty lines). And the output is exactly the same (except for Freespacing adding fixed width spaces). Obviously, I am not suggesting that these styles should be made Freespacing but only that the lines should show as empty - although in a way they aren't empty because they continue with a display formula. So, my suggestion might be more accurately described as that * the beginning of a line that contains a display formula should be in its own row and not mixed with the display formula itself.

display_math_spacing.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

display_math_spacing.23.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

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