Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> Am 20.07.2011 08:10, schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller:
> >> It is totally confusing that we have the menu Insert->Special
> >> character
> >>
> >> that already provides the char.
> >
> > I don't understand.
>
> We have the menu
> Insert->Special character
> for characters but the space inset is in the menu
> Insert->Formatting
> So the space inset is a formating inset and \textvisiblespace is a character
> that you would not expect in the Formattings menu.
> Moreover \textvisiblespace is already available in the menu
> Insert->Special character
> via Symbols...
Sure. As I said, having both approaches is completely fine. That's what I'm
proposing. Both serve different uses.
> >> OK, this doesn't work on windows because
> >> the Windows standard fonts don't support to display this character and
> >> one therefore cannot even see it in the special character dialog. But
> >> we also have the menu for special formatting characters and that is
> >> what \textvisiblespace is.
> >
> > Sure. InsetSpace _is_ in that menu.
>
> No it is in Formatting not in Special character.
That's what I said. Special formatting menu.
> >> Inserting it as a space is illogical. I mean with a character I can
> >> really do something, with a space not. So I can paint it red, I can
> >> emphasize it, I can scale and rotate it - all because it is a
> >> character. All this cannot be done with a space. Or do you ant to
> >> extend the space insert that it is possible to apply character styles
> >> and font formattings to it.
> >> So yes, the concept of spaces and characters is important here.
> >
> > Of course I can scale a space. Compare "foo~bar" to "foo{\huge ~}bar"
> > I can also emphasize it. The difference is more subtle, but it's there.
>
> OK, and with my solution one would also not see within LyX when it is e.g.
> painted red. Will this be visible in the InsetSpace implementation?
Sure. If we take the right color definition.
> > Then we have the brace, the arrows, the line and all in InsetSpace
> > (hfill). These I can even paint red.
>
> The implementation in InsetSpace is indeed better for the on-screen
> representation. So I'm convinced now, but we should do something about the
> menu logic. Perhaps we can use the menu Insert->Special character->Visible
> space that inserts an InsetSpace with \textvisiblespace?
I'm not sure. The split of "Special characters" and "Special formatting" was
performed basically because the special characters menu was too crowded. The
distinction is not sensible in all cases anyway. I would not populate the
special characters menu with a space item. The \textvisiblespace item of
InsetSpace will basically serve "to make a space visible". If they want the
character, people will also find it in the symbols dialog.
> >> But it is illogical that I can transform a real space to a character
> >> with all the consequences in an inset that is designed for spaced and
> >> not characters.
> >
> > No. See above.
>
> At this point I'm not yet convinced. I still think that also in the
> InsetSpace implementation, it should not be possible to change a visible
> space to e.g. an interword space because their width in the output will not
> be the same.
This makes no sense to me. Why should I'm not be allowed to do such a change?
I'm doing such changes all the time, with good reasons. After all, you are
also allowed to change a 10cm hspace to a 1mm hspace, where the width in the
output will change even more.
Jürgen
> regards Uwe
