With new insets, my FormRef dialog never gets the labels in figure floats that I have in a document (but gets the labels in sections fine). And dispatching a GOTO_REF after explicitly opening up that reference gives the "label not found" error. Lars, I'm sorry I can't debug this further, but I don't have time to work my way round the kernel code right now. If there's anything I can do to help say so thanks john p.s. a quick question, what is the "Name" of a crossref for, and when is it used ? -- "...except Alan Cox, but he's actually not human, but about a thousand gnomes working in under-ground caves in Swansea." - Linus Torvalds