https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7370.html#section-4

   When new I-Ds are introduced requiring new codepoints, it is
   advantageous to be able to allocate codepoints without waiting for
   them to progress to RFC.  The reasons this is advantageous are
   described in [RFC7120 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7120>].
*However, the procedures in [RFC7120
<https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7120>] for
   early allocation do not apply to registries, such as the "IS-IS TLV
   Codepoints" registry, that utilize the "Expert Review" allocation
   policy.*  In such cases, what is required is that a request be made to
   the Designated Experts who MAY approve the assignments according to
   the guidance that has been established for the registry concerned.



On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:11 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Ketan –
>
>
>
> Please read RFC 7370 more closely.
>
> Early allocation is supported – but it is NOT made permanent until RFC
> status is achieved.
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> 6.  In the event that the document fails to progress to RFC, the
>
>        Expiry and deallocation process defined in [RFC7120
> <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7120>] MUST be
>
>        followed for the relevant codepoints -- noting that the
>
>        Designated Experts perform the role assigned to Working Group
>
>        chairs.
>
> <end snip>
>
>
>
> As I have indicated in my response to Med, the important issue here is the
> clear guidance associated with the registry. We should focus on that.
>
>
>
>     Les
>
>
>
> *From:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2025 5:41 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Peter Psenak
> (ppsenak) <[email protected]>; The IESG <[email protected]>;
> [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: Mohamed Boucadair's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-lsr-igp-flex-algo-reverse-affinity-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
>
>
> It was not clear to me that the WG wanted to allow for Flex-Algo documents
> with experimental status to introduce rules in this registry. If that is
> indeed the case, then Standards Action is not appropriate.
>
>
>
> Picking the Expert Review policy (with the appropriate guidance to DEs)
> will enable allocation to be made permanently while the document is still
> in the WG phase but considered stable. Picking IETF Review will require the
> Early Allocation procedures (and renewals) [RFC7120] to be performed if the
> allocation is needed before publication - here the WG/IETF is the "expert".
>
>
>
> The choice is for the WG to make.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 10:07 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Les,
>
>
>
> Glad to hear that we agree on having guidance. Will look into those when a
> concrete proposal is made by the WG. Another pending item is to check
> whether we declare the registry authoritative and thus tag RFC9350 and
> RFC-to-be-draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con as updated by this one.
>
>
>
> You raised an interesting point about experimental. An option for
> consideration to cover that case in addition to what was already discussed
> is “IETF Review”.
>
>
>
> Unless the WG have done that, but which I fail to see in the draft and
> searching on the archives, I think we need to walkthrough the experimental
> path as I don’t think we have the pieces in place. For example:
>
>
>
>    - There is currently no provision of experimental use in the spec
>    - There is no explanation of what experimental use means in this case
>    - There is no visible/field to help users of the registry that a part
>    of the algo is experimental (whatsoever that means)
>    - There is an apparent disconnect with the spirit of RFC9350 which
>    says the following for FAD, for example:
>
>
>
>    The values 6-32767 are unassigned, and values 32768-33023 are for
>
>    Experimental Use; these will not be registered with IANA.
>
>
>
>    - ..
>    - Of course, we need to supply some operational guidance if we are
>    mixing std/exp components.
>
>
>
> I’m more and more convinced that this part of the draft is better handed
> in a separated document and keep this one focused on reverse-affinity.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
> *Envoyé :* mercredi 9 juillet 2025 17:59
> *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[email protected]>; Peter
> Psenak (ppsenak) <[email protected]>; The IESG <[email protected]>
> *Cc :* [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> *Objet :* RE: Mohamed Boucadair's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-lsr-igp-flex-algo-reverse-affinity-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
>
>
> Med –
>
>
>
> Thanx for the constructive response.
>
> NOTE: I am not a draft author and am not speaking on behalf of the draft
> authors.
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2025 1:15 AM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Peter Psenak
> (ppsenak) <[email protected]>; The IESG <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> *Subject:* RE: Mohamed Boucadair's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-lsr-igp-flex-algo-reverse-affinity-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
>
>
> Thank you for this input.
>
>
>
> The guidance in 7370 is not sufficient here, IMO. The new registry is
> special in the sense that it is not about assigning a codepoint, but about
> maintaining an algorithm. As with any algorithm, and as we gain deployment
> experience and new needs are defined, steps may need some tweaking.
>
>
>
> We need to set the expectation on the maintenance of such an algorithm
> when offloaded to a registry, especially with a DE policy. As already
> indicated in my ballot, I’d expect at least we have guidance whether we
> allow reorder steps, merge steps, insert a step between existing ones,
> update an existing one, etc. These are of course examples, but the point is
> to exemplify my purpose.
>
> *[LES:] I agree with the points you have made. Additional guidelines would
> be helpful.*
>
>
>
> In the meantime, I also don’t want us to set rules that may not be flexile
> enough to accommodate specific needs in the future. This is why I favor for
> now to change the policy to Standard Action.
>
> *[LES:] I do not see that Standard Action policy has any advantage – or in
> any way addresses your concerns. And, as I have pointed out, it has limits
> that seem unnecessary/undesirable in this case. For example, it is at least
> conceivable that an experimental use of flex-algo may be defined in the
> future and it would be useful to be able to incorporate any new rules in a
> way that avoids interoperability issues. My interpretation of Standards
> Action policy is that it provides no support for that.*
>
>
>
> *In summary, I support your desire to see more complete guidelines for the
> new registry – but I don’t support the use of Standards Action policy for
> the registry.*
>
>
>
> *   Les*
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
> *Envoyé :* mardi 8 juillet 2025 22:31
> *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[email protected]>; Peter
> Psenak <[email protected]>; The IESG <[email protected]>
> *Cc :* [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
> *Objet :* RE: Mohamed Boucadair's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-lsr-igp-flex-algo-reverse-affinity-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
>
>
> In regards to the registration policy for the new registry introduced by
> this draft – about which at least three IESG reviewers have commented
> (Ketan, Mohammed, and Roman) – all suggesting “Standards Action” rather
> than “Expert Review” as the policy…
>
>
>
> As the author of RFC 7370 – on which all of the IS-IS Registries (and some
> of the IGP Parameter registries) policies are based – I would like to
> comment.
>
>
>
> RFC 7370 was written precisely to address the use of Expert Review for
> registries. This was done in part because we wanted a policy that supports
> all RFC Tracks – including experimental.
>
> We also provided detailed instructions to the Designated Experts – see
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7370.html#section-4
>
>
>
> I do not see that Standards Action policy is more robust – and it has the
> decided disadvantage that it only allows for “Standards Track or Best
> Current Practice RFCs” (as per
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8126#section-4.9 ).
>
>
>
> I would ask the IESG reviewers to consider the above. If you still feel
> that RFC 7370 based Expert Review policy is lacking, please be more
> specific in your reasons as to why.
>
>
>
> Thanx.
>
>
>
>     Les
>
>
>
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