Hi Aijun,

How does this proposal impacts BGP path selection ?

Note that it is common to do next hop self on the ASBRs towards the
intradomain. So your proposal would not require any signalling to be
effective on a given ASBR. Local decision.

Originally I was under impression that you want to enhance TE for option C
like deployments. But if not then I see not much point of doing it.

Thx,
R.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 4:09 AM Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi, Ketan:
>
>
>
> In the inter-AS scenario, we will not deploy BGP session on each p2p link.
> The BGP session exists only within the loopback address of each ASBR pair.
>
> Such deployment is also same in the LAN scenario. Then there is no mesh or
> partial p2p link that congruent to the BGP sessions.
>
> But such LAN interfaces are sharing the same prefixes.
>
>
>
> And regarding to your comments on Prefix sub-TLV: yes, if we redistribute
> such external prefixes into the IGP, then they will be transported within
> the associated “External Prefixes TLV”.
>
> But for these stub links, if we configure them as “passive” only( no
> redistributed action), then the prefixes of these stub links will not
> exists within the IGP LSA.
>
> Attach the prefixes information with these stub links can certainly fill
> such gap. There will be no redundancy information.
>
>
>
> And, regarding to your comments: “… …- at least let us not go overboard
> and repeat the same info in multiple places. ”, this is also the main
> reason that we don’t want to use the RFC5316/RFC5392 mechanism to
> accomplish the goal for the inter-as topology recovery------there will be
> many redundancy information being flooded within the IGP area.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:54 PM
> *To:* Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Acee
> Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; lsr <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Comments on draft-wang-lsr-stub-link-attributes
>
>
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
>
>
> Please check inline below.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 1:15 PM Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, Ketan:
>
>
>
> There are situation that such information is necessary:
>
> When several ASes are connected via the LAN interface, it is impossible to
> describe the inter-AS relationship with the current descriptors that
> provided by RFC5316 and RFC5392.
>
>
>
> KT> Note that we have BGP running on these Inter-AS links. Even when there
> is an underlying LAN, the BGP sessions are p-t-p and maybe a full or
> partial mesh. Therefore, I believe representing such a LAN as a mesh of
> p-t-p links that are congruent to the BGP sessions is the right approach. I
> am happy to be corrected. In any case, I still fail to see how a prefix
> associated with the links helps here.
>
>
>
>
>
> And another scenario is that when these stub links are used to correct
> servers, there is no remote-AS, remote ASBR ID information. But we can
> distinguish different stub link via their associated prefixes.
>
>
>
> KT> I disagree - such stub links can be identified by their local
> interface ids along with their local IP address. Note that we already have
> the corresponding prefix being advertised as prefix reachability. So I
> don't see the need to repeat. All of this is already overloading IGPs with
> info that is not used by IGPs - at least let us not go overboard and repeat
> the same info in multiple places.
>
>
>
> Please check the new fresh thread about use-cases.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2022, at 15:03, Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
>
>
> Similar to Les, I disagree with you on the use of Prefix TLV as an
> attribute of the "Stub Link". The reason is that this attribute is not
> required for the identification of a link in BGP-LS (or in IGPs for that
> matter) that was the main use case. I also don't see the use of that in
> Inter-AS links. Please justify this.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:19 PM Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, Les:
>
>
>
> Please note the references to RFC5316/RFC5392 in
> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11 is for TE scenarios, and
> what we are discussing are non-TE scenarios.
>
> For prefixes sub-TLV, would you like to revisit my responses to Ketan,
> before make any comments? For your convenience, I can elaborate again to
> you——-“The prefix sub-TLV is not the link identifier, it is just one kind
> of link attributes”. Is it clear enough?
>
>
>
> Based on these facts, I think it is unnecessary to response your other
> baseless comments.
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2022, at 12:51, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Acee –
>
>
>
> I have a somewhat different take on this draft.
>
>
>
> I agree with you that draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11 is
> relevant – but I disagree that the lsr-stub-link draft is needed at all.
>
> In fact one of the main points in the extensive discussion of this draft
> that occurred several months ago  ( see
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/8pY4d21J1XOb_GfwgrROJUijLQ8/
>  as a pointer to one email in the thread) was that RFC 5316/RFC 5392 are
> sufficient to support the use case. This is reinforced by the references to
> those two RFCs in the bgpls-inter-as-topology draft.
>
>
>
> The other main point (discussed in #3 below) is that the use of a prefix
> as a Link Identifier is a flawed concept and has been objected to by many
> WG members.
>
>
>
> For these reasons I believe this draft is unnecessary and undesirable.
>
>
>
> Given the extensive review of the draft by many members of the WG and the
> failed WG adoption, I believe the WG should move on to other priorities. I
> understand that the authors of lsr-stub-link have not been convinced and
> want to continue to advocate for the draft, but at some point the WG needs
> to say we have done due diligence and the WG consensus is NOT to adopt the
> draft. The continued discussion of this draft consumes WG resources
> (including presentation slots) and diverts WG attention from other work.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 27, 2022 11:37 AM
> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>;
> [email protected]
> *Cc:* lsr <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Comments on draft-wang-lsr-stub-link-attributes
>
>
>
> Hi Ketan,
>
> I’m glad you brought this up. The primary (and AFAIK only) reason for this
> draft is to get the stub-link information to a router in the IGP domain
> running BGP-LS so that it can be advertised to the controller. For
> reference, see
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11.txt
> figure 1. So, the IGP encoding is only to get the stub-link information
> from B1 and B3 to S2 and from B2 and B4 to T1. Since the IGPs and TE are
> not consuming the information, the problem could be avoid by simply running
> BGP-LS on B1-B4. See inline.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Lsr <[email protected]> on behalf of Ketan Talaulikar <
> [email protected]>
> *Date: *Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 5:33 AM
> *To: *"[email protected]" <
> [email protected]>
> *Cc: *lsr <[email protected]>
> *Subject: *[Lsr] Comments on draft-wang-lsr-stub-link-attributes
>
>
>
> Hello Authors,
>
>
>
> Please find below my comments/suggestions on this draft. I am sharing them
> upfront given the packed LSR agenda.
>
>
>
> 1.     Sec 3 the rationale provided for not using the Inter-AS TE
> LSAs/TLVs is not sound in my opinion. I would say that the TE encoding may
> not be suitable for use in all deployments as their advertisement results
> in the addition of those Inter-AS links in a TE topology database and that
> may not be desired. So, I would suggest that the draft keeps the option of
> use of Inter-AS TE TLVs valid and goes ahead with the Stub Link proposal as
> an alternative with broader applicability (also see the next comment).
>
>
>
> Agree.
>
>
>
> 2.     For the proclaimed wider applicability (e.g., links to
> servers/hosts) in the slides, there is no such text in the draft. The draft
> seems focused on Inter-AS links. I hope the authors update either the draft
> or the slides - to be in sync with their objectives.
>
>
>
> It is solely for purposes of advertisement in BGP-LS and consumption by
> the SDN controller as described in
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11.txt
> .
>
>
>
>
>
> 3.     The use of the prefix TLVs in this context is something that is
> (in my opinion) broken from day 1 of this draft. Prefixes are for
> reachability. For identification of links, we have the local/remote link
> identifiers along with the local/remote IP addresses (NOT prefixes!). This
> to me is a NO-GO for the progression of this document.
>
>
>
> I agree, if this draft is to persist, these should be referred to as ASBR
> addresses as in the IDR draft (the sole raison d’etre for this IGP draft).
>
>
>
> 4.     The placement of the Stub Link TLV should be top-level (similar to
> other/existing links). I can share further suggestions offline, provided we
> reach an agreement on the above points and we converge on the main
> purpose/motivation for this work.
>
>
>
> I feel that strongly here as this is analogous to the new BGP-LS NLRI type
> in
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11.txt
> .
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
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