Hi Savvas, I know there are DVDs that contains various languages, but do you think downloading several GBs for installing a not-too-big system is a waste of resource? Still, if we use Live DVD for system rescue purpose, the situation is hard to imagine, :P So I still prefer to have a localized CD, and better being released officially.
Regards, Aron Xu On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Savvas Radevic <vice...@gmail.com> wrote: > Aron, have you tried the DVD iso? > > http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/release/ > > It contains the packages of localized versions of Ubuntu for all languages. > Maybe this is what you need. :) > > 2009/12/16 Aron Xu <happyaron...@gmail.com> >> >> Thanks Tom, but I think your suggestion isn't very to the point perhaps. >> >> I want to talk about *official* localized CDs rather than customized >> versions either done by local governments or other teams and individuals, >> and my concerns have been stated in the initial mail. We have many editions >> that aren't officially approved by our community, and some of them are in >> Distrowatch's list,but that's really not enough. Most of them is just like >> your company makes a tweaked version and only be trusted by a small amount >> of people, and only an official one can be reliable enough to most people >> desiring to have a fully localized environment at the very beginning of >> their experience. >> Can you imagine if Microsoft doesn't provide a localized version of >> Windows for your language, what will their customers do? Ubuntu is free >> software and the situation can be better in some possibilities, but >> providing the localized editions is a big step forward in our progress, >> which I've mentioned at the first thread. >> To ubuntu-devel subscribers, my first mail was posted to ubuntu-devel but >> not approved till this message being composed, please have a look at >> Zhengpeng Hou's mail, which included all my message in a reply. >> >> Regards, >> Aron Xu >> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi :) >>> >>> Many governments already produce their own linux version for their people >>> to >>> use. In many cases governments even employ people to help with such >>> developments. Often Ubuntu is the chosen linux distro to work from but >>> some >>> countries choose other versions of linux, China and Turkey famously >>> developed their own from scratch. >>> >>> Perhaps we just need to support advertising or promoting the Ubuntu >>> versions >>> where they are not widely known? Perhaps we could get links to their >>> sites >>> from the main Ubuntu homepage? >>> >>> DistroWatch is an excellent place to look-up these different versions as >>> it >>> puts a lot of work into keeping their data up-to-date, man other sites >>> look >>> better but fail to be so up-to-date and comprehensive >>> http://distrowatch.com/ >>> >>> From their front page for today i got to these 2 new releases earlier >>> this >>> week ... >>> >>> http://www.epidemiclinux.org/index.php?lang=pt-BR&option=com_content&Itemid=50 >>> http://www.mopslinux.org/news/81-mopslinux-70-beta1.html >>> >>> As another example a quick search for "Spain" on their site, using their >>> search feature gave these results >>> http://distrowatch.com/search.php?origin=Spain >>> http://distrowatch.com/index.php?distribution=molinux >>> http://distrowatch.com/index.php?distribution=guadalinex >>> >>> Also scroll down their Ubuntu page to their "Related Web Sites" in the >>> table >>> there >>> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=Ubuntu >>> Perhaps this would be useful to link to from the main Ubuntu homepage? >>> >>> >>> In Community Documentation there are instructions for anyone wanting to >>> create their own Customised Cd although i think it needs translating into >>> human languages as even my own edits of it are almost completely >>> incomprehensible techno-babble >>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization >>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch >>> >>> >>> I hope something here helps? >>> Good luck and many regards from >>> Tom :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: "happyaron...@gmail.com" <happyaron...@gmail.com> >>> To: ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com >>> Cc: ubuntu-translat...@lists.ubuntu.com; loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com >>> Sent: Wed, 16 December, 2009 6:31:56 >>> Subject: Considerations about official localized editions of Live CDs >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> It is a proven fact that Ubuntu, the Linux for Human Beings, is a great >>> GNU/Linux distribution, which enables more and more people all over the >>> world enjoy free software, share their knowledge and joys. >>> >>> Being an user of Ubuntu, I must say all the work done by the community >>> and >>> Canonical is awesome; but as a contributor from a not English spoken >>> country, I would be extremely happy to see we can launch localized >>> edition >>> Live CDs, in other words language specific edition Live CDs for users >>> that >>> have different languages and preferences. >>> >>> For different languages there always be different cultures, and this >>> caused >>> to different user preferences. There are many people don't have enough >>> knowledge about English to use a not localized computer in this world. A >>> user of this kind will find it essential to download and install many >>> thing >>> to complete their language support when they installed Ubuntu from our >>> Live >>> CD in the past and at present. Most of these users have some common usage >>> of >>> software, so install these "language preferred" software is another >>> required >>> task before the system is usable. Do you think such a thing is very >>> annoying? Yes, users would be much happier when they find an operating >>> system designed to be very considerate. >>> >>> We have spent lots of man power on improving the process of installation >>> including language support, and a GNU/Linux distribution always ships not >>> only a system but also a set of selected applications, but I think things >>> are still not perfect for us. Microsoft and Apple make their operating >>> systems have different language's editions, and as a non-native English >>> speaker, I 'd like to say it worth. Users prefer to have a fully >>> localized >>> environment in every corner they can see from the very beginning. But for >>> Ubuntu we can only add translations of software that used during >>> installation. The live session is an exciting feature, but I always here >>> somebody ask "why are those all in English?""is there a fully translated >>> Ubuntu available?" I've explained our current situation times by times, >>> and >>> these people always return to say "Ubuntu is great, but if there is a >>> fully >>> translated one, things will be even better." The way to solve such >>> problem, >>> is having a language specific edition. >>> >>> So there are teams and individuals appear to make their distributions >>> based >>> on Ubuntu, or we are regarding them as Ubuntu Derivatives. The existence >>> of >>> these derivatives help us spread our distribution in the positive side, >>> but >>> there are really negative side, it's not just a problem on user choice, >>> like >>> between Fedora and Ubuntu, but something influence our build of >>> community. >>> Those derivatives always not only ship language packs but also some small >>> tweaks for specific user groups (not like Mint, which makes some bigger >>> differences). Due to many reasons, there always be breakages and bugs >>> that >>> never existed in official Live CD. Users have to choose a provider that >>> he >>> or she can trust when they are about to turn to Ubuntu but can hardly >>> accept >>> to start from a global edition Live CD with minor support of his or her >>> language. But who can make sure the quality of these derivatives? Perhaps >>> nobody can tell. For the derivatives provided by non-profit >>> organizations, >>> situations are better than those profit-driven teams. I know some >>> editions >>> have changes that bring security holes, ship Ads (e.g. hard change on >>> Firefox home page which point to a site full of Ads), and of course some >>> of >>> them refused to open there changes. Yes, users are able to drop those >>> unwilling changes, but why he or she tries a derivative if they like to >>> deal >>> with such issues? We may still say it doesn't matter a lot up to here. >>> Then, >>> most of those derivative's authors don't supply support even though some >>> of >>> them have make changes and cause problems, and even some of them push the >>> support work to local community deliberately. Apart from general >>> questions, >>> these users always ask about problems caused by derivative's changes. It >>> is >>> an annoying and overwhelming job to answer, even just tell them "to use >>> the >>> official one" can be an awful thing that few people like to do. This lead >>> to >>> discount to our community, and those users may think Ubuntu and our >>> community are not friendly because most of them don't know the real >>> situation exactly. >>> >>> Making official localized Live CDs can also lead to a new stage of Live >>> CD >>> usage. A Live CD can be used as a demo, a rescue system, or even a >>> temporary >>> working environment, the live session is a feature that many users like >>> very >>> much. As mentioned before, a not English spoken user can find some very >>> limited support in the current Live CD. We need to admit it can hardly be >>> used to do anything other than run a installation. Even for a demo >>> purpose, >>> other will always ask about the nearly all English environment. I've said >>> in >>> the beginning of this piece, users prefer to seeing that every corner he >>> or >>> she can reach is localized. To achieve a better usage of Live CD, a full >>> localization is critical for these users. As for languages that need >>> input >>> method to input characters, for instance CJK languages (Chinese, Japanese >>> and Korean), without a full featured input method, their usage of Live CD >>> can be even more limited. It is really hard to input these complex >>> scripts, >>> though we have ibus with general m17n support by default, but you can >>> only >>> type characters one by one, such thing look very ridiculous for nowadays >>> input method development and usage. When you cannot input a sentence, how >>> can you make it even if you just want to search the web for some articles >>> via live session? >>> >>> Apart from the meanings of official localized Live CDs above, users can >>> save >>> time on downloading and installing language support and perhaps other >>> common >>> software using a localized Live CD. For example, to complete a basic >>> language support of Chinese needs around 100MiB to be downloaded, such a >>> size only count in the language packs and input method without pulling in >>> any other common software like StarDict to land on the system. With a >>> localized Live CD, users can have a usable environment to be installed >>> when >>> they can't access a fast Internet connection, or even without a >>> connection, >>> such feature is obviously welcomed by many users who have desired it for >>> long. With a fully localized environment, we can simplify user's >>> configuration process, and make it really almost ready-to-use once >>> installed. >>> >>> Making the localized Live CDs don't need any changes on our most >>> infrastructures, it is just a matter of default selection of software in >>> the >>> CD. This will cause some more work for CD image team, translation >>> exportation and our ISO building facilities, but I think it worth it. The >>> intention of default package sets and some QA work can be done by the >>> LoCo >>> teams. >>> >>> We can't provide Live CDs for all languages, especially at the very >>> beginning, but starting with having a try for some languages that have >>> special need of care and a big amount of potential users is worthwhile. >>> We >>> can accumulate experience and make the process better. Windows and Macs >>> can >>> have language specific editions, why we can't? >>> >>> Providing official localized editions can be a big step forward on >>> spreading >>> Ubuntu and free software to the world. The progress of making it out is >>> another try on the cooperation of development community and local >>> communities. Ubuntu is Linux for Human Beings, I think such an action is >>> really to that point, which will benefit a lot of users throughout the >>> world. >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Aron Xu >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ubuntu-translators mailing list >>> ubuntu-translat...@lists.ubuntu.com >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> loco-contacts mailing list >> loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts >> > > > -- > loco-contacts mailing list > loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts > > -- loco-contacts mailing list loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
