whatever jim. I’ve used this list and helped people. People have helped me.
Your approach was wrong. My response was wrong. I admitted my mistake. You wanted this off list and you’re still responding. Ban me if you wish - it would only be a temporary measure. I’ve been buying your hardware for four years. I can easily stop doing that, too. $5,000 business relationship would be over. — Ryan On Jul 23, 2014, at 0:11, Jim Thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Let's get some facts straight: > > False: "the board, case, SD all cost about $145 if you buy them from > PCEngines." > > PC Engines doesn't sell SD cards, so we'll leave those out of the discussion > for now. > > List price on an APU from PC Engines: $136 (2GB) or $155 (4GB) > List price on case from PC Engines: $9.30 > List price on power supply from PC Engines: $4.50 > > Total: $149.80 (2GB) or $168.80 (4GB) plus shipping and duties from > Switzerland. > > Netgate price on 2GB APU kit (no storage): $179 ($29 markup vs DIY) > Netgate price on 4GB APU kit (no storage): $199 ($31 markup vs DIY) > > Plus shipping from Texas. > > Netgate offer a fully-assembled, supported version of the APU for $299 (2GB) > or $319 (4GB), these also include a 8GB SanDisk Extreme SDHC card (same can > be added to the kits, above.) > > Best"Google Shopping" price on a 8GB SanDisk Extreme SDHC card is $11.25, but > you won't succeed in buying from him. Next best price is $12. So $161 (2GB) > or $181 (4GB), if you chose to DIY. Remember, you'll still have to pay > shipping from Switzerland and US import duties. (So do we, but we do a LOT > more volume than you.) > > Now, it actually does take time to program the SD card, assemble the unit, > test it, source and track the raw parts, etc. Getting the heat transfer > material and spreader in the right place takes time and know-how. Moreover, > the transfer pad doesn't really permit "do-overs". Maybe you'll get it right > the first time. Maybe. Getting it right the second time means a reduction > in heat transfer. > > Further, the version of pfSense from the Netgate and pfSense stores has > features which do not appear elsewhere. > > Oh, and we laser engrave the cases. (Port marks only on the "kit") > > Finally, many people will not work very long for no pay, so the support > (should you want/need it) does cost something to supply. The people > providing that support have forgotten more about pfSense than you'll ever > know. > > In any case, as you and everyone else can plainly see, the markup is nowhere > near $250, as you have emphatically and repeatedly stated. One must therefore > conclude that you have an agenda. > > This is still extremely offensive: > >> My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you >> don’t want the support you can look at this model, > > In any case, basic math skills will show that your claim of a $250 "fleecing" > is egregiously wrong: > > $319-$181 is $138. > $299-$161 is also $138 (hmm!) > > Remember you'll have to import from Switzerland, assemble the unit, and > answer questions for a year, take returns, develop the software and have > something left over to pay for the Christmas party out of that $138. > > Just to emphasize: Without the support and assembly, the markup .vs DIY is > $30 +/- $1. > > And here again, you've not paid to import from Switzerland, which are not > costs you'll avoid. > > I am left to conclude that you're either lying, or can't perform basic > arithmetic. > > ..... > > Now, about the list. > > I try to keep this list vendor free. Your actions negate that effort. > > Telling me what to do with my list, hosted by my company, about a project > that I have supported from the very start with time and money, is a short > path to the ban list. > > Got it? > > -- Jim > > On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:35, Ryan Coleman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Actually the margin is more like $250 - the board, case, SD all cost about >> $145 if you buy them from PCEngines. >> My fleecing comment is based on the lack of a statement that says if you >> don’t want the support you can look at this model, or give an option to opt >> out of the support. Also calling it simply APU4 implies that it is 3 >> versions BETTER than their APU1C4 - it should be APU4-KIT or BUILT or >> something like that to differentiate between them. >> >> I love my Alix. The base parts is a good price. The extra cost without other >> information is not a good business practice and is, indeed, trying to get >> people to spend more money on something that they don’t have to (not saying >> they shouldn’t) is bad. >> >> I never ripped into him for that - he publicly told me to take it off the >> list when he should have privately. In fact I thought the message WAS >> private until my phone lit up with responses. >> I’ve been on mailing lists since 1996 and I’ve never been called out like >> that publicly by a moderator without advance warning. >> >> — >> ryan >> >> >> On Jul 22, 2014, at 22:30, Walter Parker <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I see a few things going on here: >>> >>> From the Netgate site, the difference between the APU1C and the APU1C4 DIY >>> kits is 2GB vs 4GB. >>> The Kits are $179 and $199 and include the board, a case and power plug. >>> >>> The kit from PCEngines is just the board (I don't see any that says it >>> comes with a plug or a case). The plugs on PCEngines are not in stock. >>> Some of the cases are out of stock. >>> >>> Prior emails on this list have indicated that the older versions of the >>> case (for the alix) didn't quite fit the APU and therefore had a thermial >>> problem due to poor contact. The Netgate cases are the new style that >>> doesn't have the problem. >>> >>> The assembled systems from Netgate are $299, which means the price >>> breakdown is: >>> $179 for the Board, case and plug (PC Engines price for all of this is $150 >>> if you order more than 500 units) >>> $22 for the flash card >>> $99 One year of pfSense support >>> >>> That leaves Netgate with a whole $6 over the price of the DIY kit (which >>> was <$30 more than PC Engines, but to get PC Engine's price, you have to >>> buy $75,000 worth of hardware). >>> >>> >>> I bought my Alix from netgate and it was a good price. This new item is a >>> good price. You are unlikely to find the hardware for less money once you >>> include the $99 add on from pfSense support. >>> >>> I did find Ryan's initial email to be a bit rude. What is it with people >>> that assume that because a company wants to make a profit that they are >>> fleecing people? The $6 margin on a $299 product hardly seem like a rip off >>> (my time is worth a lot more than that). >>> >>> And you get a tested system with a warranty. >>> >>> Look at the prices for the Intel systems, they tend to run double once you >>> include all the features. >>> >>> >>> And have some class, Jim is one of the good guys, doing great work with >>> Netgate and pfSense. Ripping on him because he asked that sales types >>> questions for a vendor product be sent to the vendor is not a bad request >>> (the pfSense vendors do read this list). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Jim Thompson <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I am. I have. >>> >>> I'm trying to be patient and professional. >>> >>> > On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:47, Sean Colins <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Who is the list mom and why is he/she not responding to this? >>> > >>> >> On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Ryan Coleman <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Look fuck nut: branded and shipped hardware is 100% on topic. Thank you. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 20:10, Jim Thompson <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Very little if this thread is related to pfSense. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please stay on topic. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Jim >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 17:32, Chris Bagnall <[email protected]> >>> >>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 22/7/14 11:17 pm, Nickolai Leschov wrote: >>> >>>>> I didn't notice this page. So it looks like it's some kind of thermal >>> >>>>> paste >>> >>>>> allows for adequate thermal conductivity between the CPU/south bridge >>> >>>>> and >>> >>>>> the aluminum heat spreader, but the heat spreader is in dry contact >>> >>>>> with >>> >>>>> the case? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> The one I've just installed here in my home office has 'sticky' >>> >>>> thermal pads on both sides of the aluminium heat spreader, and sticks >>> >>>> to both the chips and the base of the chassis. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> It gets warm in use, but not uncomfortably hot. Ambient temperature is >>> >>>> about 22C at this time of year. >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Now, how is the board held in place, inside the enclosure? Is it held >>> >>>>> in >>> >>>>> place by 'screws and hex nuts'? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> 4 screws in the corners which go into binding posts on the chassis, >>> >>>> not particularly dissimilar from most PC motherboards into cases. >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> What is the thing in the second-to-last picture near the thumb of the >>> >>>>> presenter's right hand: is it the SIM card tray? Is it accessible from >>> >>>>> outside, after the installation? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> There is a SIM card tray, and like the SD card slot, no, it's not >>> >>>> accessible externally after installation. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> (as a matter of curiosity, does pfSense support this SIM card slot for >>> >>>> anything 'interesting'? - one presumes it would need to be used in >>> >>>> conjunction with a miniPCIe radio card of some persuasion) >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Kind regards, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Chris >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> This email is made from 100% recycled electrons >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> List mailing list >>> >>>> [email protected] >>> >>>> http://cp.mcafee.com/d/1jWVIe6zqb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CQjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYr3d8KpF1D >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> List mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://cp.mcafee.com/d/FZsS921J5yXBNMUQsII6XCNOqr0VVBYSejjod7bMUsr79FI3DCn3oVdd-ZT7ztfS0aJmfyPsH5undSH7NpKlyLbC_YxtSPb_nVN4sCVtXHTbFECzB_zhOesd7dQkumKzp55mXbfaxVZicHs3jqpJATvAn3hOYyyODtUTsSjDdqymovaAWsIXjUk_w0e2qKMM-l9OwXn3VkCrfBipsxlK5LE2zVkDjBDqv2DY01dLKnodwLQzh0qmRDhzUkYQKCy0eAWXYvxrPh0g-pz_wq810b1dwQgr10Qg20m2q8AMroudVHDmk1gq >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> List mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> http://cp.mcafee.com/d/5fHCN0q43qb5TbzxNEVpodTdzAQS1PPbVIsCCMqenxMUSejjo7fcK6NOqrZXKf6WvI0lqIv5CVmaYKrJmfyPsH5und_V2XJCn-LPy8VdOXTnKnjhd7b_6zAsUqerEEYJt6OaaJSmul3PWApmU6CSjr9K_8K6zBV55BeXNKVIDeqR4IM-l9QVpSDMF_00s4RtxxYGjB1SK7OFcSvaAOV2Hsbvg57OFeDbeQ-5fU02rvsKMr1vF6y0QJHez7MFVFtd40t9RTU_2TCy0xYP7_0Qg20m2r1EwS21Ew40I4Qh9wSMYriex-wjKS >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of >>> zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list > _______________________________________________ > List mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
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