On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 08:13:13AM -0600, Jon Loeliger wrote:
> David Gibson wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I know, but I don't think it's even worth having the unused
> > internal parameterization.
>
> OK. We can eliminate it then; no problem.
>
> >> I ran my "old versus new DTC" comparison script and found it. :-)
> >
> > Heh, we should fold that into the testsuite, too.
>
> I'll start by simply adding the script to the test directory then.
Ok.
> >> Because it wasn't working, as explained in the comment I added.
> >> Specifically, (1<<bits), with bits==64 overflowed and yielded
> >> the value 0.
> >
> > Ah...
> >
> > Well, I assumed (1ULL << 64) would equal 0, which is why the
> > comparison has the (-1) - I was expecting for bits == 64 it would end
> > up being against -1, i.e. 0xffffffffffffffff. This appears to work on
> > the systems I've been using.
>
> But not on an x86 system.
>
> > But I just remembered that (x << n) has undefined behaviour in C when
> > n >= word size.
>
> Exactly. In fact, I think x86 takes the shift value, bit-wise
> ANDs it with 63 internally, and then shifts left by that value.
>
> So I guess (1 << 64) is just returning garbage - I
>
> In fact, it is yielding 1 on an x86 machine.
>
> > suspect I didn't catch it because I've been building with -O0 for
> > gdb-ability, which might change the behaviour of corner cases like
> > that.
>
> Or works on a PPC machine? :-)
Actually I was working from home on an x86 machine when I wrote that,
so I think it must have been the -O0.
> > So I guess we need
> > else if ((errno == ERANGE)
> > || ((bits < 64) && (val >= (1ULL << bits))))
>
> Sounds good. I'll commit --amend that into the patch!
>
>
> >> And in the blue corner, touting consistent hex forms, ...
> >
> > And in the red, compact bytestring representations.
>
> > No, seriously, the inconsistency bothers me too. But so does the fact
> > that using 0x in the bytestring would double the minimum size for
> > representing bytestrings, somewhat changing the flavour of [] as well
> > (because spaces are no longer optional). I'm looking for a killer
> > argument one way or the other, but I haven't found it yet.
>
> But why does it even have to be hex numbers at all?
> I guess my point is that they could just be expressions.
> You could use 0x31 or 49 or '1' or 061, whichever made
> more sense in some application. You don't necessarily take
> a representational size hit.
But you do take a hit w.r.t. *minimum* representation size - there's
no form amongst all the possibilities here more compact than pure hex.
Especially since spaces are optional in the old form. The fact that
[ab cd 00] and [abcd00] are equivalent was a deliberate choice in the
original form.
The point of [] is for random binary data which is neither strings
(even with the odd strange character) nor sensibly organized into
32-bit (or larger) integers. Wanting something other than hex here is
much rarer than in the < > case.
You're seeing < > and [ ] as basically the same thing - a list of
values - with the only difference being the size of those values.
That's not wrong, but it's not the only way to look at it - and it's
not the way I was thinking of [ ] when I invented it. Your proposal
makes perfect sense while you think of [] as a list of values - but
not so much when it's thought of as a direct binary representation.
So I'm thinking perhaps we need two different things here: a "list of
values" representation, which can accomodate expressions and can also
have multiple sizes (because expressions which are evaluated to a
16-bit or 64-bit value could also be useful under the right
circumstances), and the [ ] "bytestring
literal" representation. Perhaps something like:
(32-bit values)
<0xdeadbeef (1+1)>
or <.32 0xdeadbeef (1+1)>
(64-bit values)
<.64 (0xdeadbeef << 32) (-1)>
(8-bit values)
<.8 0x00 0x0a 0xe4 0x2c 0x23 (0x10 + n)>
i.e. < > is list of values form, with size of each value as a sort of
parameter (defaulting to 32-bit, of course). I'm not sure I like that
particular syntax, it's just the first thing I came up with to
demonstrate the idea.
--
David Gibson | I'll have my music baroque, and my code
david AT gibson.dropbear.id.au | minimalist, thank you. NOT _the_ _other_
| _way_ _around_!
http://www.ozlabs.org/~dgibson
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