fyi, according to this:
http://gs.statcounter.com/?nomore=ie6#browser_version-ww-weekly-200827-200951
ff 3.5 is the most popular browser in the world right now (per version).
tom.
2009/12/20 Shlomi Fish <shlo...@iglu.org.il>
> Hi Uri!
>
> Just a note - please break your E-mails into paragraphs better, and please
> be
> less passionate-sounding and more informative. I find it hard to
> communicate
> with you.
>
> On Sunday 20 Dec 2009 13:53:30 Uri Even-Chen wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlo...@iglu.org.il>
> wrote:
> > > On Sunday 20 Dec 2009 13:13:01 Uri Even-Chen wrote:
> > >> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Dotan Cohen <dotanco...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> >> I also have a problem with Bank Hapoalim on Firefox. The numbers
> are
> > >> >> switched, instead of "(1) דואר נכנס" I get "דואר נכנס )1(" (the
> > >> >> number is on the right) and instead of "(25) סל מיחזור" I get
> "רוזחימ
> > >> >> לס )52(" - I get 52 instead of 25.
> > >> >
> > >> > It sounds like they are using visual encoding, which makes them
> > >> > idiots. You will find that leads to problems in IE, too, like
> > >> > searching in the browser or copying text.
> > >>
> > >> They save time and money by not checking browsers such as Google
> > >> Chrome and Firefox. I worked once in a web developing company, and
> > >> they told me their contract with the customer is that the website
> > >> works with Internet Explorer only. They told me not to check the
> > >> website with Firefox! They don't care, the customer doesn't pay for
> > >> checking with Firefox and they don't check it at all. Most web
> > >> developing companies work like that. Banks too, they hire web
> > >> developers (sometimes outsourcing) and they pay them to make the site
> > >> look fine with Internet Explorer. They don't bother to check with
> > >> Google Chrome, Opera, Firefox, although it's only about 10% more of
> > >> the developing time. They save money!
> > >
> > > You're describing a situation that may have been "true" (and I'm
> putting
> > > "true" in quotes) a few years ago. But right now, you must be either
> very
> > > clueless or out-of-your-mind or both to not support Firefox and other
> > > more standards-compliant browsers. While it is true that MSIE still has
> > > an 80% market share (possibly less by now - it keeps losing it), as
> > > someone noted to me on IRC, this is the bottom 80% of the web surfers.
> By
> > > all means, you do wish to cater to the more clueful people who are
> using
> > > Firefox and other "alternative" browsers.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, there are other factors:
> > >
> > > 1. Web designers who test their pages in Firefox and design according
> to
> > > web standards tend to be more clueful than their FrontPage weenies
> > > counterparts, and as a result produce better, more sustainable and
> safer
> > > code.
> > >
> > > 2. You are likely to lose customers who will refuse to switch to MSIE
> to
> > > browse your site, or have to handle many complaints from people that
> your
> > > web- site does not work for them.
> > >
> > > 3. Your pages may easily break with newer versions of MSIE, which will
> > > require update.
> > >
> > > 4. There are other advantages:
> > >
> > > http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/by-others/mashhoor--10-reasons--
> > > hebrew.html
> > >
> > > (short URL - http://xrl.us/bgpzhg )
> > >
> > > -------------
> > >
> > > So they are not saving money in the long run or even not in the short
> > > run.
> >
> > If they were not saving money, they wouldn't do it at all! Money is
> > the reason why they do it, like I said they save maybe 10% or 15% of
> > the total web developing time, and I agree they save money only in
> > short terms, but that's how businesses work!
>
> How do you know they are actually saving money? Maybe it's a bad decision
> and
> they are losing money. Businesses are making bad decisions that lose them
> money all the time, and we are allowed to question them.
>
> > They don't care about
> > 20% of the users,
>
> They should. These are the top 20% of the users. I switched banks because
> my
> old bank's web-site did not support Firefox, which was probably indicative
> of
> many other problems with it. Losing 20% of the users just because you don't
> want to test on Firefox (which actually makes you lose web-development
> money,
> and even if it did have some added cost, would be completely worth it in
> the
> added constant sales and usage of the site later on - a site serves a
> purpose
> and is not an end in itself), is a bad business decision.
>
> > I told you the website of Bank Hapoalim, the biggest
> > bank in the country, has problems with Firefox and Google Chrome.
> > With Firefox it's minor problems, but still there are problems which
> > they could solve! And with Google Chrome it's a more annoying
> > problem. They don't care about standards,
>
> Then they are stupid.
>
> > if they don't pay web
> > developers to test other browsers then they don't test at all! I
> > prefer Internet Explorer as an end user, as a developer I always test
> > at least Firefox, for example you can check www.speedywhois.net and
> > see for yourself. But if I work as an employee, and my boss tells me
> > not to test Firefox - I don't have a choice. I can't do things
> > against my boss!
>
> Yes, you can't. But then the problem is with your boss, and I am allowed to
> criticise their decisions. You are also allowed to quit because you know it
> may not end well, and will look bad on your future C.V..
>
> >
> > By the way, I tried to report to the bank, they gave me a captcha, (I
> > hate captchas), I made a mistake and they deleted my feedback.
>
> I hate captchas too. They are a huge accessibility and usability problem.
> (Though textual/mathematical captchas are not too bad). And there are ways
> for
> spammers to overcome them (though sometimes it can be a good anti-measure).
>
> > I
> > didn't have time to type it again... the banks such, they are really
> > bad when it comes to supporting computer technologies, and their
> > business depends on computers!
> >
>
> Yes, indeed. I should note that so far I didn't have any major problems
> with
> the Firefox support of the fibi.co.il site, which is my current bank, and
> it
> has an excellent reputation among Firefox users. Firefox support problems
> and
> such annoying misuse of Captchas may be indicative of much more major
> problems
> in the site and cluelessness as far as the web-designers are concerned.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
> My Aphorisms - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html
>
> Bzr is slower than Subversion in combination with Sourceforge.
> ( By: http://dazjorz.com/ )
>
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>
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