On Fri, 2 Mar 2007, Yonah Russ wrote:
On 3/2/07, Peleg Wasserman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
First of all what do you consider pornography?
What does that matter? There is a building full of elected officials and
appointed commisions who will decide what is considered pornography after
which an entire system of judges will interpret the law as issues arise. The
same way they decided that it was legal to drive 80km/h on a intercity road
without a separation, etc.
Wow, cool logic. What's your purim disguise ? (I'll guess: sheep ?)
Discussion and democratic opposition to unwanted laws is a part of
democracy together with elections and the rest of the system. Shutting
up and letting things be is about the right reaction for, say, a citizen
of Germany, circa 1933. But one has learned after that, no ?
Second, why is it the job of the government to tell it's citizens what
is ok for them to access, and let their children see, and what isn't?
The short answer is that you elected them to do exactly that. You elected
them to make laws as they see fit. If you don't like the laws they make,
don't vote for them again.
The long answer is that government, especially democracy, is about
sacrificing some personal freedoms for the sake of a more organized society.
It is a social contract which binds everyone. Everyone agrees to submit to
having speed limits enforced so that an idiot doesn't crash into them at
150km/h. Everyone agrees to go to jail for murder so that people won't
murder them, etc. Everyone elects a government and they decide the rules.
No, the majority elects the government, and the government coalition
cannot afford to pretend that those who did not elect them do not exist,
although it tries hard all the time (see below).
There are countries where there are no speed limits on certain roads and
there are very few accidents. There are countries where murderers run
free after nine years of doing time or less. There are countries where
one's hand can be chopped off for stealing a bread or one's head can be
chopped off for trying to renounce one's religion. All of these call
themselves democratic in some way or another.
Of course you will always have those who disagree and they can either choose
to follow the rules anyway, or face the consequences if they are caught.
Those who 'disagree' democratically in a country like Israel which is
governed of necessity (since no party has a sufficient majority) by a
parliametary coalition almost always represent more than 50% by
definition. Calculate for yourself: if a party A has <50% of the power
(i.e. seats in the knesset) in a coalition then its sustainers represent
<50% of the voters and thus the 'rest' implicitly represent >50%.
Therefore when such a party pushes through a law (perhaps by a quid pro
quo arrangement with another coalition party B) then it is likely that
it makes >50% of the voters unhappy (and the smaller the coalition
fraction the larger the amount of unhappy voters). Then when party B
gets to push through its law on account of having let A push its law
through, the situation repeats as B's supporters also make out less than
50% of the electorate. And that's the way it works, if you read comments
in the media to new laws. I dont. I wonder what the quid for the
internet censorship law quo was. Or will be. Or will have been.
This is not to say that the system is bad, it's just the way it is. This
thread is digressing into politics. My fault. FYI from what I know in
most countries governed by coalitions people grumble a lot (and blog)
due to similar effects. In countries not governed by coalitions the
grumbling (and blogging) is more directed (i.e. those damn
democrats/republicans etc).
While any parent who wants to limit his children's access to the
Internet can do it quite easily, as can be done by any ISP, the problem
is not with what kids can see, but how they react to this.
I would rather have the government spend it's money on giving kids
sex-ed classes, and educating them, and leaving the decision on what
they can see to their parents.
This is not as easy as you suggest- it is not simple at all to filter such
content. And there is no way for a parent to control all of a childs
internet access (school, phone, home, neighbor's wireless). By putting the
block on the ISP level, you have a much more effective means of control.
Yes, the ISP will be required to hire workers who will vote on sites.
Then *their* opinion will decide what is p0rn. Then things like the
Oscar ceremony could be preventively labelled as p0rn, and kids blocked
from watching it, because someone's mammary gland could be temporarily
exposed, or because the skirts are cut way too high in the opinion of
20% of the surfer's parents. And so on.
The present situation is such that everyone does what one pleases, and
those who please censorship for themselves or for others (i.e. their
children and dependents) hire professionals to set up content filters
(like some kibbutzim and moshavim do) or use an appropriate ISP who
provides this service for them. What is stopping you from using such a
service ? And what is stopping those MKs who proposed the law from
using it, come to think of it ? Are they very worried about the
sheeple's horseshades being too wide ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the current government and I certainly
didn't vote for them, but there is nothing that stops the government from
doing what you say and if they decide to do such a thing then apparently the
majority of people around you would either choose to do something similar
or they wouldn't care. Maybe you're just in the wrong country?
This is not about who is in power. Maybe you're in the wrong century and
prefer to forget all the precedents (including contemporary), many of
which reflected we know how upon the history of the Jewish people ? It
is not an accident that I compared this country with Iran, China and NK
in the first message ?
Peter
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