Dear Mr. Zak,
Thank you for your e-mail.
I was sorry to learn that, you have experienced some difficulties while trying to use
our web site, because you are using other browsers than "Internet explorer" browser.
I would like to mention, that as an advanced communication company, we are interested
in providing full information and services on our web site to our subscribers and
online users.
Therefore, we are investing great efforts to improve our web site services and
increase its availability of our web site, with intention to a continuance improvement
of our service.
However, I would like to explain that our web site supports only the "Internet
explorer" browser since it is the most popular browser among world wide Internet users.
I can assure you that your comment had been forwarded to the development team's
attention.
I hope that you will continue to enjoy our advanced services.
Regards,
Assaf Shlomi
Data Support Team
www.orange.co.il
-----????? ??????-----
??: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
?????: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:19:15 +0200
???: Omer Zak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
????: Please Modify your Web site to conform to W3C standards not only for
Linux but also due to other reasons...
I am one of the developers of the Hebrew support for Nokia 9110, Nokia
9210/9210i and other Symbian based smartphones.
I am also a customer of Orange.
Some of those smartphones have the Opera Web browser built in or
available
as an installable application.
This Web browser was designed to be W3C standards compliant rather than
Microsoft IE compliant.
If the Orange Web site does not comply with W3C standards, then people
who would like to access it from their smartphones (and pay Orange for
the privilege of using data calls) - won't be able to enjoy the full
experience you worked so hard to design for them.
In other words, you'll be shooting Orange's feet. And don't tell me
they
can use WAP to access your Web site. WAP does not provide all those
bells
and whistles you worked so hard to develop.
Note that it is possible to have a lot of bells and whistles in Orange's
Web site, if you believe in this approach, while maintaining full
compatibility with W3C standards.
--- Omer Zak
My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which
I may be affiliated in any way.
In particular, this message does not represent the official policy of
Ozicom Communications Ltd.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:49:20 +0200
From: Amichai Rotman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Linux-IL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ???: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is
unviewable
in Mozilla {ID:36786727} (fwd)
I have recently upgraded my cell phone to a Motorola C350, a GPRS based
phone,
which rose the need to use the Orange Web Site. Up until now I used the
nifty
SendSMS script (By Nadav and others) and saw no need to access a
Mirosoftia-only based Web site. Nothing for me over there.
Now I disover the have a portal for the GPRS handsets and I cannot
access it
from my Linux box.
I called the service (both regular and data) and all I got was the same
shlomi
did - "We don't care! Screw you!". Whatsmore - on most of the calls I
make to
the service (*054) I get reffered to their Web site. When I tell them I
can't
access it because I don't have Windows (such an option does not
register)
they tell me to go to a friend's house and use his computer !!!
I think these e-mails aren't what we need, we have to go public. Some
article
on YNet or Captain Internet might stir the put a bit...
Any of you with the right connections?
Thanks,
Amichai Rotman.
On Monday 03 November 2003 22:35, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Attached is a discussion I had with the webmaster of the site of
Orange,
> of which I recently became a customer of. Notice what I claim to be
some
> inconsistencies in his approach. The final E-mail he sent me (after
which
> I said that I'll just agree to disagree) is:
>
> <<<
> Dear Mr. Fish.
>
> I would like to end this discution with this note.
> Even though I am a user of Linux and a fan of all things open source I
> still do
> not agree that all websites should support all browsers. orange's
website
> was
> designed to be out of the ordinary, not standard and clean but to
align
> itself
> with our Logo and unique line of advertising.. We chose to write it
this
> way
> and we have no regrets.
> Even with all this in mind, your comments about compatibility will be
> taken
> into consideration.
>
>
> If you are an Orange customer please voice your complaint as well or
> mention that you support my opinions. (to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
>
> Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than
> getting its license changed.
>
> Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:54:55 +0200 (IST)
> From: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: ???: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is
unviewable
> in Mozill a {ID:36786727} (fwd)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
>
> An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
> doctors away.
>
> Falk Fish
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:39:45 +0200 (IST)
> From: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: ???: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is
unviewable
> in Mozill a {ID:36786727}
>
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Dear Mr. Fish,
> > I thank you again for your mail.
> >
> > I regret being so blunt but, no, we are not going to change our
website
> > in the near future. We have developed an amazing website,
>
> "amazing"? By this do you mean full of non-portable bells and
whistles,
> and other idiosyncracies? Sorry, but that's not an amazing web-site
> according to my book.
>
> A good web-site is either simple and clean, or includes
> standard-compliant, portable embelishments. (which are usually not
> necessary).
>
> Usability, low bandwidth, etc. is much more important than
"amazingness"
> and I bet it's not very usable in MSIE either.
>
> > that costs us a
> > lot of money to develop and maintain,
>
> Why does it? Why should it? I maintain a few web-sites in my free time
and
> I'm not getting paid to do so. If you keep your web-site clean and
simple,
> it will cost less money to maintain and will also attract more
visitors.
>
> > and it is currently built exactly
> > according to our business needs.
>
> I seriously doubt it is built according to anyone's business needs.
Why do
> you need JavaScript to display the catalog of images? Why not simply
> include them in the HTML? If you look at popular international sites,
> you'll see that most of them are built with simple and clean HTML
> (sometimes without any trace of JavaScript).
>
> > I can also say that although
> > technologically it might be possible to develop a version for
Mozilla or
> > other browsers,
>
> 1. It is possible.
>
> 2. I'm not talking about a separate version for other browsers. I'm
> talking about one version for _all_ browsers.
>
> > orange, and many other content providers, are investing
> > in the most common browser, it is currently not cost efficient to
> > develop versions for other browsers.
>
> It is cost efficient if you hire clueful developers. Look at my site:
>
> http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
>
> (which links to other sites I made).
>
> They all look perfectly fine in all modern browsers, including lynx (a
> minimalistic text browser). Why? Because I know what I'm doing and I
know
> how to write good HTML.
>
> First you tell me your site costs a lot of money to maintain, and then
you
> tell me it is not cost efficient to support other browsers. Now, let
me
> tell you this: if you keep your site clean and standards compliant,
you
> can have it support all browsers and it will cost you much less money
to
> maintain.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
> > Regards
> > Eyal Sion
> > Data Support Team
> > www.orange.co.il
> >
> > -----????? ??????-----
> > ??: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ?????: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:48:32 +0200
> > ???: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > ????: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable in
Mozill
> > a {ID:36786727}
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Dear Mr. Fish,
> > > I thank you for your e-mail.
> > >
> > > In reply to your complaint, currently, our website is only
supported
> >
> > by Internet Explorer versions 5.5 and up.
> >
> >
> > OK.
> >
> > Are you going to do anything about it? By designing a web-site
according
> > to web standards, one can make sure it is supported on all browsers
> > easily. Right now, you're descriminating against an entire section
of
> > the
> > populace that cannot run this browser on their OS or computer of
choice.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shlomi Fish
> >
> > > Regards.
> > > Eyal Sion
> > > Data Support Team
> > > www.orange.co.il
> > >
> > > -----????? ??????-----
> > > ??: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > ?????: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:24:01 +0200
> > > ???: Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > ????: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable in Mozilla
> > >
> > >
> > > The page:
> > >
> > > http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/
> > >
> > > on your site is not viewable with Mozilla 1.4 on Linux (and
probably
> >
> > on
> >
> > > Windows as well). Please fix it. I am about to buy a device from
you
> >
> > and
> >
> > > was unable to view the site due to this bug.
> > >
> > > That put aside, the site is completely unusable with Konqueror
3.1.3
> >
> > on
> >
> > > Linux.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Shlomi Fish
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> > >
> > > An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep
two
> > > doctors away.
> > >
> > > Falk Fish
> >
> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> >
> > An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep
two
> > doctors away.
> >
> > Falk Fish
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
>
> An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
> doctors away.
>
> Falk Fish
>
>
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