this has contributed to increasing the confusion (I'm afraid that it is no longer clear that Hamakor, or Shachar Shemesh, are not the sole force behind the Go-Linux event, nor even the primary driving force).
well, Hamakor does not appear as one of the driving forces on the web site. are you saying you are the main organizer and P&C only give the money? this is cute :)
No, this is not what being said. Shachar & Doron, among others, are part of the group of people from various bodies that pushes this along. We're not on the web site bexause we don't pay $big_bucks to sponser this. In fact, in light of current events we are not really sure of the stauts of Hamakor, as a body, in all this.
People who are on Hamakor, like myself, are assiting the effort in various ways because we want it to succeed but I am not sure we wont to involve Hamakor as a body in this organization because I am not clear on just how much we will be able to effect the course this new "Israeli Linux Group", as they call it, will take and how much will be dictated by the people with the money.
also, it shows once again that grassroots is stronger than financial selfish interests of coroporations, and demonstrates what I fealt from the first day I heard HP, IBM and Sun are going to cooperate: they can't spell the "co" in cooperate. now it seems they are not keen on "operate" either :-)))
From my understanding of how things go your feelings are very justified. Cooperation is hard to acheive because of the conflicting interests of the bodies involved. It still happens though and when it does it's very fruitfull.
This confusion is not only among the IGLU members, but also among other people. One of the parties who got confused was Sun's Motti Sadovsky,
on behalf of the confused masses, allow me to calm you and tell you I was not one bit confused, infact I wasn't aware there was anything to be confused about to this moment. Now that you explaind it it seems to make sense mostly (surreal sense, mind you - Sun initiates a convention and let it be run by volunteers that undermine its intentions, heh)
>>who more or less promised the same server to both Hamakor and the new >>body. We would have shared it, except that some of the members of the >>new body want to base it on their propritary software (CA, Oracle, IBM). > >
> a severe case of "they don't get it". sad. >
I think Shachar is a bit polite in his description. My interpertation of things (and i wasn't present in this discussions personally but was informed by Doron & Shacahr) are that Hamakor, as an amuta, rejected the donation of the server because Sun demanded that a proprietry 3rd party application (not Sun's) would be used to run the forums of the Go-Linux event that would have been hosted on it. As a result Sun decided to "donate" the server to some other, not yet defined, body that would run the server for the the "Israeli Linux Group" forums instead using those tools.
Shachar may choose to call this a "misunderstanding" but as Sun representative called us hypocrats for sticking to our principles and refusing to take their donation although we are dependant on commercial bodies to finanace our server (and did this while slamming a 100NIS bill and urging us to take it to demonstrate his point) I think that to say that he did not understand the distinction between Hamakor and the "Israeli Linux Group" organization is wishful thinking on the part of Shacahr.
Rather, I think Sun believed it found a group of people that would help it to promote it's and it's partner services and products while still maintaining a "community" facade for the price of a server donation and publicity but was surprised (and angered) to discover that while we are always willing to cooperate in advancing what we believe are our and the community interests we will not be bought that easily by money or hardware.
Luckily for us, the business community is not only comprised only from this one company. There are other companies which are mnore respecful of us and where we stand and I also want to believe that in the future, perhaps when they get to know us a little better, this unfortuante incident would be forgotten. But this is the situation now.
http://www.kde.org/il/knoppixkde/
Shlomif's knoppix clone,
umm?
Kudos to Shlomi Fish for the effort!
chip in and buy a fiasco type 1U non-server for ~1000$, or we'll get
I'm all for that. donations will always fit the whims of the donating parties and rarely those of the community. for the price of SCSI we can get half a tera of IDE ourselves.
I agree. You did pay your hamakor registration fees so we can afford to finanace this, hmmm...? :-)
I will also state that some of the confusion stems from a difference of language. Our language is, really, very different than the language spoken by commercial bodies such as Sun, or even IBM. I am hoping that
I would say, the conflict arises from us not willing to give up our interests (or rights or freedom) and roll over at the site of a donation. Ugly way to put it, I know. The truth is sometime that.
well, since our goals are so different and so are our ways of action, where do you see the common lines where the two bodies meet? one uses the kernel to run propriatary server apps, and the other uses it to promote free software for workstations and other configurations. while the two don't step much on eachother's toes, I fail to see how they need the cooperation of eachother (other than them getting free help from us)?
This is not 100% correct. A vendor can sell both free and open sourced software and closed source software (on Linux or not) but still be respectfull on the community (not to mention it's customers). There are enough companies that do seem to respect if not to agree with us there for this to be worth our while to do this together and moreover - I think that in the long run the bodies there will understand where we come from better and incidents like this will be avoided. I hope.
Gilad
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