On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 05, 2002, Omer Zak wrote about "[hackers-il] [Cross-posted from
>Linux-IL] Re: DMCA, SSSCA/CBDTPA related laws in Israel? (fwd)":
> > >>a new, dedicated, mailing list. To subscribe, send an empy email to
> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest taking all of
> > >>this discussion there, so as not to litter both lists with off topic issues.
> > >>
> > >
> > >why ?
> > >
> > >there are a lot of threads not of any intreset to me, i do not ask to open a
> > >different mailing list for each thread !
>
> I agree. It's silly to have a dozen different mailing lists with exactly
> the same people on all of them. The topics of discussion on (for example)
> hackers-il are very diverse, and we tend to only have 1 or at most 2
> discussions ongoing at a time. I don't see what putting each discussion
> in a separate mailing list achieve, besides a growing number of cross-posting
> (which is exactly what happened here, with a message cross-posted to
> hackers-il and linux-il), confusion, and flames about people posting in the
> "wrong" mailing list.
>
> No, I'm not going to to subscribe to yet another mailing list with the
> same population as hackers-il. This is why I didn't subscribe to philosophy-il
> (Shlomi, if you have a different population than hackers-il, tell me and
> I'll subscribe)
AFAICT, the Philosophy-IL's subscribers are so-far more or less a subset
of Hackers-IL and/or Linux-IL. But more importantly, they are this subset
which is interested in "purely" (i.e: non computer or science related)
philosophical discussions in English. And the latter were declared
off-topic in Hackers-IL.
Note that I do not limit Philosophy-IL to be a subset of Hackers-IL or
Linux-IL. I would be very glad to have non-Linux-oriented people there. I
just did not have time to propagating it further, yet.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
BTW, for the record I also think that freedom-il is a bad idea that has a
very small chance to gain a lot of momentum. Such discussion are
definitely not OT on hackers-IL and probably not on Linux-IL either, and I
don't see the point of starting an entire mailing list dedicated to this
subject.
> , and why Shachar's antispam-il is also completely inactive
> (Shachar and a few other people insisted that it is a criminal offense to
> discuss anti-spam issues on hackers-il or linux-il, which is why that mailing
> list was born and had about 20 postings in its whole life time).
>
> > I did not ask to open one. I opened one. As I am paying for the
> > colocation, disk space, domain and administration of that list, I feel
> > it is perfectly within my rights to open the list and invite people.
>
> Sure :) But it is also within our rights not to join it.
>
> > I think this particular thread deserves a separate list because it is:
> > A. Very important to me.
> > B. Very off topic
>
> Other than being political (and therefore a bit sensitive), how is it off-
> topic? A large part of linux-il is about free software advocacy. It's about
> Israel. It might not be the most linux-specific issue in the world, but it's
> certainly not "very off topic". Other Linux-related forums are constantly
> discussion such issues as well.
>
> > From experience, these mailinst lists tend to not be high traffic, and
> > therefor do not require a large overhead to subscribe. I think taking
> > this subject seriously requires that there is a place dedicated to
> > coordinating the effort. Hence - I opened a mailing list. You can all
> > vote me wrong by the simple act of not subscribing.
>
> On the contrary. Every mailing list subscription has overhead: keeping
> filtering scripts up-to-date, remembering how to unsubscribe (like the
> case of the "iglu" mailing list, which was dead for years and suddenly
> started sending spam), and so on. So I'd much rather have an extra thread
> on a large mailing list I subscribe to than to subscribe to yet another
> mailing list (I'm already subscribed to 80, most of them dead or dying).
>
> This is of course assuming this thread will run its course (say, 20 mails
> at most) and die off. If it becomes a recurrent thread, with 50 messages
> each month, then yes, we can split it off to a different mailing list.
>
> This is, for example, what I did with the ivrix-discuss mailing list:
> discussions regarding Hebrew support were a recurring topic on linux-il,
> but not more than (say) 10% of the traffic there. Many people who wanted
> to discuss Hebrew support did not want to subscribe to the whole of linux-il,
> and wanted this topic to be spun-off as a separate mailing list; And on the
> other hand, many people on linux-il only cared about discussion Linux
> technicalities (how to install this-and-that, etc.) and admittingly did
> not want to hear about Hebrew support.
>
> > >i think that legal status that may affect people on this list may be of
> > >intererst.
> > >
> > If people are interested, they are welcome to subscribe to the new list.
> > Like I said, it is unlikely to become a high volume one, and
> > subscription will not cost you much in terms of personal bandwidth.
>
> They are also welcome, as far as I'm concerned at least, to continue this
> thread on the existing mailing lists.
>
> > I don't know what the charter for Hackers-IL is. If I understood it
> > correctly, NOTHING is considered off topic there, which is precisely the
> > reason I don't want to subscribe to that list. It will require too much
> > personal bandwidth (even reading the title of a thread requires time).
>
> Hackers-il is, as far as I'm concerned, more about being a community than
> being a place to ask questions on a specific question. People have been
> talking about writing stories, free software, weird programming languages,
> natural languages, shooting rubberbands (!), Linux and other operating
> systems, Physics, and a lot of other stuff. The only common thing among
> these things is that they are things that interest (at least some of) the
> computer-savvy population that decided to subscribe to that list. Most of
> it is somehow related to computers or "hacking", but some of it is much more
> loosely related to computers (e.g., stuff found on the Internet, stuff about
> society and technology, and so on).
>
> > >just my 2 (what is the cents of euro ? ).
> > >
> > They are called cents. These europeens have no imagination.....
>
> Yes, but the French got a special permission to continue them centim, because
> "cent" in French means "1 hundred" :)
>
>
> --
> Nadav Har'El | Friday, Apr 5 2002, 23 Nisan 5762
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-----------------------------------------
> Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Are you still here? The message is over.
> http://nadav.harel.org.il |Shoo! Go away!
>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
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