On Sat, Dec 30, 2000, Adi Stav wrote about "Re: ipchains":
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2000 at 07:27:34PM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> > There's another problematic issue about the GPL. It's quite clear how it
> > applies to software companies, but how does it apply to Hardware companies?
> >
> > For example, some companies are selling a VCR-like product that records on
> > a hard-disk and that allows cool features like playing back while recording
> > (you can skip commercials if you start watching the movie 20 minutes after
> > starting recording it!). Anyway, some of these products are actually small
> > modified PCs (with extra, special hardware), running Linux plus the company's
> > proprietary software. Now, how does the GPL apply here?
> >
> > If needed, the company can supply the product with a CD of the GNU/Linux
> > sources (but it's probably not needed because it is found on the Internet).
> > But do they have to also give away the sources of the proprietary VCR-interface
> > program? It doesn't look that way. I actually find this a good thing, because
> > the GPL was meant to stop the tyranny of the software companies, not of the
> > consumer-electronics companies. On the contrary: the consumer-electronic
> > companies are damaged by the software giants in the same way us invidual users
> > are, and should be allowed to benefit by the same solution.
> > Besides, all the "crap" about your rights to make copies doesn't really apply
> > to consumer electronics: you can't (yet) copy a physical machine.
>
> I'd say that as soon as a company releases software, it doesn't matter
> whether the company's core business is hardware or not. The software
> is governed by the same laws.
>
> I'm not sure I understand: do you mean the GPL should or should not be
> applicable to hardware? Or firmware (there was a discussion on
> debian-devel about firmware not long ago, unfortunately without
> conclusive findings).
I'm not talking about applying the GPL to the hardware itself, or about
hardware companies making software (a la Sun's Java) - I was talking
about how the GPL applies to software that comes prepackaged with some
hardware.
I think that the computer-VCR-appliance makers I described above should be
allowed to put GPL software on their machines and sell them. And here is
my rationale:
Consider a PC maker, say Compaq (just an example!), that sells computers
with Linux (say, a Redhat distribution) preinstalled in them (with a manual
that describes how to get the sources of the programs from the Internet). Is
this legal? I think it would be very hard to find somebody who thinks it isn't.
Now, what if our PC maker adds a proprietary piece of software to the
preinstalled system, e.g., some cool game that runs on Linux? Is this ok?
I have a very hard time to understand why not. The sources to that game are
not available, but the sources to all the GPLed programs are still available.
So, if you consider what our hypothetical PC maker did as being legal and
acceptable, then how different is this from the computer-VCR case, where
somebody is selling a PC with a bit of extra hardware (TV card, remote
control, etc.) and some selection of proprietary software (the software that
does the video recording and provides the user interface)?
Because I consider these two cases to be impossible to differentiate, and
because the first case (PC maker selling preinstalled linux-based machines)
is so acceptable and even desirable to the free-software community, I would
have to conclude that making a hardware package that includes a GPLed program
should be considered legal.
By the way, what is RMS's thoughts about selling a CD containing some GPLed
programs (complete with full source code and GPL license) and some other
commercial programs (that don't have source code, and the license prohibit
copying them)? This is very similar to the hardware case above, and I would
consider such a distribution ok too, but maybe other people disagree with
me here.
> And by the way: has anyone in Israel tried any of these machines? I
> suppose the schedule planning features cannot be used, because they
> are tried to a service that is only given in the US, but it still
> sounds cool enough.
I don't have any personal experience with them, unfortunately.
Watch out: if you buy such a machine in the U.S. (or Japan), then most likely
it will only work for NTSC... Before you buy one, check if they can also
record PAL.
--
Nadav Har'El | Saturday, Dec 30 2000, 5 Tevet 5761
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy
http://nadav.harel.org.il |every minute of it.
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