Ok,
Bezeq are just using their monopoly status in this market to sell less
service for higher price. period.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Oded Arbel wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eldad moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Regarding the prices, well - I do thing it is expensive,
> >but you have to realise that Bezeq invested more then
> >$200 million on the adsl infrastructure !!!
> >The prices will get down at some stage...
> How did you get the $200 million figure ? the whole point in ADSL being is
> that you don't need to upgrade the infrastructure - you just move everything
> on the twisted pairs any user gets !
> The only investment Bezeq need doing is buying DSLAMs, which (for the 10,000
> switchboards that should be available for ADSL by march, as Bezeq claims)
> would mean $20000 for a DSLAM set . I _know_ that a DSLAM doesn't cost
> anywhere near that figure.
> The only other erquirement for ADSL (the other two being a normal twisted
> pair copper line to the subscriber and a DSLAM in the switchboard), is very
> fast ether channel between the switchboards, some which bezeq has for last
> decade or so. so I have no idea where you got this nice and round figure
> from (maybe from Bezeq reports to the "Knesset" ;-) but it sure doesn't
> sound realistic.
>
> The other opinions that you describe here are also a bit lacking on the
> factual side :
> >The major advantage of the adsl is the downstream,
> >which is higher them all other options at the market
> >at the moment.
> >Each customer gets 3mb (mega bits) of downloading
> >and it's the fastest internet around at the moment.
> ADSL is up to 8MBit downstream for a very short connection (about a mile or
> less from the switchbaord) which almost any urban Bezeq user fall under that
> category, or 6Mbit for twice the distance - which covers all the other
> cases, except a very limited number of special cases which wont have ADSL
> available anyway. Bezeq limits the downstream to 2Mbit (and not 3 like you
> claim), because they're cheap and don't want to upgrade their internal
> network (see the bogus $200 mil again).
>
> >The upstream is 64kb to all of the customers!
> >No one has more then that.
> >About the future - nothing is clear yet -
> >especially not an extra cost for more uploading
> >capacity.
> >(Why the hell do you need more then that -
> >how much uploading you do anyhow...)
> most users on the net (ok, most of the users in the world - less sure about
> israel) aren't passive users - this isn't television (which is one of many
> points where Bezeq fails to understand the medium). end users do upload
> stuff - files to web servers, they stream live media from web cams and
> "internet radio" web casts, they video chat, swap media file using media
> exchange networks like Gnutella and do other stuff - all require large
> upstream pipe - and ADSL technology does allow for an upstream channel of
> upto 1.5Mbit.
>
> >In any case - it is completely not to the point to
> >talk about adsl and isdn in the same breath!!!
> >
> >adsl is a pure direct digital connection between
> >customer's line and the operatoin port through the
> >ATM network (which is the fastest network around).
> ISDN is also a digital network, similar in concept to ADSL, but utilisizing
> just the frequency range used by normal voice - which limits its bandwidth
> to the theoretical 64k of normal voice range.
>
> ADSL by itself does not require the ATM fast switching, it's just that its
> nicer to have the ADSL throuput channeled using ATM, and it allows Bezeq to
> force the ISPs to buy expensive ATM connection from ... you guessed it -
> Bezeq :-)
> There are other forms of networking that are very fast (I think some are
> even faster the ATM), all suitable to be the backend for ADSL.
> Also, the digital channel formed by ADSL is just between the ADSL modem and
> the DSLAM. the other parts (the connection from the ADSL modem to the
> consumers computer, and between the DSLAM to the ISP) are composed of
> different ethers - the only thing connecting them is the VPN software -
> which could run on any other medium - for example , an analog modem.
>
> The ADSL prices are just the highest that Bezeq allows itself to charge and
> still thinks it will get customers. if it will charge more, it will be
> cheaper for customers to buy some otehr connectivity, like FR; and if home
> users will buy FR, it will grind the already saturated FR network to a halt,
> forcing Bezeq to -- good grief! -- invest some more money in expanding its
> internal network.
>
> I'm not saying Bezeq is the devil incarnate, just that they're not the
> farest people around. I guess that competetion will do good to the nice
> Bezeq folks too (and I don't mean "fast" internet access using the cable
> system).
>
> As it stands right now - I'll stick with ISDN, maybe even my full 256K,
> which according to my latest calculations will be just a bit more expensive
> then ADSL, but will give me 4 times the upstream rate - good enough to run a
> web server.
>
> That's my rant - sorry , I had to discharge some steam :-)
>
> Oded
>
> ..
> The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem
> worth
> stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe
> it.
> -- Bertrand Russell, The Philosophy of Logical Atomism
>
>
>
>
>
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