Property taxes are based on property values. If people with relatively low incomes hold valuable real estate you can argue either that the property tax is regressive (if you think income is what should be taxed) or that the tax is proportionate (if you think wealth should be taxed). High value real estate is a form of wealth, just as is any other high value investment.
Margaret On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 4:55 PM Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you for the link. > When narrowing the data and looking at our surrounding/comparable > communities, we see an interesting picture. > While on one dimension, out taxes do not see high, when you look at > average income, they are very high. > That suggests Lincoln’s property taxes are extremely regressive-hitting > the lower income folks the hardest. > No? > Perhaps I have read this wrong and would love to know that is not true! > > dor.state.ma.us > <https://dls-gw.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=AverageSingleTaxBill.SingleFamTaxBill_wRange> > > <https://dls-gw.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=AverageSingleTaxBill.SingleFamTaxBill_wRange> > <https://dls-gw.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=AverageSingleTaxBill.SingleFamTaxBill_wRange> > > > > > On Jun 9, 2025, at 11:25 AM, Louis Zipes <[email protected]> wrote: > > For those interested in crunching the numbers for Carlisle versus Lincoln > and the respective tax rates over the last 15 years you can go to the > following link and filter on Carlisle and Lincoln > > > https://dls-gw.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdpage.aspx?rdreport=averagesingletaxbill.singlefamtaxbill_wrange > > > > An interesting thing happens to our taxes around 2019 to cause a bigger > increase in an otherwise similar-ish % rate increase. I wonder what that > was?! Oh yeah, it was the self funded school which was a result of the 2012 > ‘own goal’ when we didn’t muster the 2/3rd needed to pass that original > project. > > > > > On Sunday, June 8, 2025, David Cuetos <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Credit ratings are not a good measurement of performance of the >> committee. The job of a finance committee member is to understand what are >> the trade-offs of different taxation and expenditure solutions. Measuring >> the committee performance on ratings alone is equivalent to only looking at >> one side of the ledger. Yes, we have a AAA credit rating, but at what cost? >> They have amassed reserves well in excess of prudence, overtaxing residents >> along the way without even providing them any information about what was >> happening. >> >> The difference between Carlisle’s and Lincoln’s credit rating is >> approximately 0.20% in annual interest rate. For the community center >> project the difference is roughly $20,000 a year, equivalent to $10.6 a >> year for the average family. As you can see, our credit rating should be a >> low priority for FinCom, especially given how indebted we are already. We >> are simply not going to tap the issuance markets in any meaningful way for >> our credit rating to make any difference to taxpayers. >> >> A better way to measure Carlisle’s performance is to look at their >> average tax bill, which is just $16,738, 18% lower than Lincoln’s $20,462. >> Their costs are lower than ours despite having a bigger school enrollment, >> the main cost driver, supported by a smaller population. Over the past 15 >> years their taxes have grown 48% (2.7% per annum) compared to 75% for >> Lincoln (3.8% per annum). They clearly have done a better job than us >> managing their finances and we should look to them for best practices. >> >> David >> >> On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 21:55 Anne Warner <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> No, but credit ratings are closely related to how the Finance Committee >>> performs over time. To have e collect credit ratings, a town must have >>> excellent financial oversight, which means the selection needs to result in >>> excellent selections. Anne W >>> - Sent from iPhone. Typed by thumb. Excuse misspellings! >>> >>> On Jun 8, 2025, at 9:16 PM, Scott Clary <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Credit ratings have nothing to do with how Financial committee members >>> are appointed. >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Scott Clary >>> 617-968-5769 >>> >>> Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 8, 2025, 8:57 PM Louis Zipes <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> One comment I would make is that Bob wrote in support the of the >>>> citizen's petition that 'The Town *usually* has a contested race for >>>> Select Board, and candidates differentiate themselves based on their views >>>> and policy preferences' >>>> >>>> Actually, if I'm reading this history of Select Board races (see link >>>> below) over the last 20 years, that were actually contested, then a better >>>> word would be *rarely. * >>>> >>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/501/Election-Result-History >>>> >>>> Also, note that Carlisle, which the petitioners mentioned as an example >>>> of where the Finance Committee is chosen by the Select board, actually has >>>> a lower bond rating than Lincoln. Admittedly different rating agencies but >>>> I believe that AA1 is lower than AA+ in S&P's rating whereas Lincoln has >>>> been AAA, the highest, in Moody's ratings since 2009. Carlisle has not been >>>> able to crack that top rating nut according to this link: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://dls-gw.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdpage.aspx?rdreport=dls_bond_ratings >>>> (Choose >>>> the different rating agencies to see Carlisle versus Lincoln) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 1:08 PM Robert Domnitz <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Margaret, AI can be unreliable. One needs to go back to the source >>>>> documents. Carlisle is one of the towns that we looked at. According to >>>>> the Carlisle official town website, the Select Board chooses FinCom, not >>>>> the Moderator as cited in your table. The table may contain outdated >>>>> information. See https://carlislema.gov/1161/Finance-Committee. We >>>>> haven't looked at the other towns in your table. Regards, Bob >>>>> Finance Committee | Carlisle, MA >>>>> <https://carlislema.gov/1161/Finance-Committee> >>>>> The Finance Committee was established under Article 17 of the warrant >>>>> for the annual town meeting held February 13, 1933, and further amended >>>>> under Article 19 of the warrant for the annual town meeting held March 10, >>>>> 1969. 3.9.2 There shall be a Finance Committee which shall consider all >>>>> fiscal questions and may consider municipal questions at their discretion >>>>> for the purpose of making reports ... >>>>> carlislema.gov >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* Margaret Olson <[email protected]> >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 8, 2025 12:49 PM >>>>> *To:* Robert Domnitz <[email protected]> >>>>> *Cc:* Lincoln Talk <[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [LincolnTalk] Citizens' Petition at the Special Town >>>>> Meeting: Finance Committee Appointments >>>>> >>>>> I asked Claude, an AI, how the Massachusetts towns close in size to >>>>> Lincoln select their Finance Committee members. >>>>> >>>>> *Towns Close in Size to Lincoln (*population 6,996 based on the 2024 >>>>> census >>>>> <https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/lincolntownmiddlesexcountymassachusetts/PST045224> >>>>> *)* >>>>> >>>>> *Finance Committee Selection Methods* >>>>> *Town* >>>>> *Population* >>>>> *Finance Committee Selection Method* >>>>> *Shirley* >>>>> ~6,851 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Berkley* >>>>> ~6,822 >>>>> Appointed by Select Board >>>>> *Harvard* >>>>> ~6,900 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Berlin* >>>>> ~6,700 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Boylston* >>>>> ~7,100 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Sherborn* >>>>> ~7,400 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Stow* >>>>> ~7,200 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Dunstable* >>>>> ~7,200 >>>>> Appointed by Select Board >>>>> *Boxford* >>>>> ~7,800 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Mendon* >>>>> ~6,100 >>>>> Appointed by Select Board >>>>> *Bolton* >>>>> ~5,800 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Boxborough* >>>>> ~6,000 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Carlisle* >>>>> ~5,900 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Dover* >>>>> ~6,200 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Hamilton* >>>>> ~7,600 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Plympton* >>>>> ~6,300 >>>>> Elected by Town Meeting >>>>> *Petersham* >>>>> ~6,500 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Hardwick* >>>>> ~6,400 >>>>> Appointed by Select Board >>>>> *Ayer* >>>>> ~8,100 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Norwell* >>>>> ~7,900 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Westford* >>>>> ~8,200 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> *Lancaster* >>>>> ~8,100 >>>>> Appointed by Town Moderator >>>>> >>>>> Margaret >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 12:01 PM Robert Domnitz <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Several weeks ago, 130 residents signed a Citizens' Petition asking >>>>> that our Special Town Meeting consider an amendment to the General Bylaws >>>>> of the Town. If adopted, the amendment would grant authority to the >>>>> Select >>>>> Board to appoint the members of the Town's Finance Committee. That >>>>> authority is currently held by the Town Moderator. >>>>> The Finance Committee (FinCom) is one of Lincoln's most important >>>>> volunteer committees. Its work is complex and its analysis and >>>>> recommendations have a decisive impact on town operations and residents' >>>>> taxes. Despite its importance, FinCom receives limited direct engagement >>>>> from residents. >>>>> As signatures were gathered for the Petition, the vast majority of >>>>> residents said they did not know how the members of FinCom were chosen. >>>>> They thought that the Moderator's role was limited to presiding over Town >>>>> Meeting. No one could recall a contested election for the position of >>>>> Moderator, and no one could recall that a Moderator had ever expressed a >>>>> viewpoint on Town finances or FinCom appointments. >>>>> The disconnect between FinCom and residents has been compounded by the >>>>> current practice of relying on FinCom to screen potential candidates for >>>>> membership. Vacant positions have not been advertised, and public >>>>> interviews have not been held. >>>>> If endorsed by Town Meeting, the Citizens' Petition will make the >>>>> Select Board the appointing authority for FinCom. Residents look to the >>>>> Select Board for overall management of the Town. It seems natural that >>>>> they ought to be the authority that appoints FinCom. The Town usually has >>>>> a contested race for Select Board, and candidates differentiate themselves >>>>> based on their views and policy preferences. That process helps align our >>>>> Select Board with residents. Adoption of this amendment will empower the >>>>> Select Board to solicit and publicly interview volunteers for FinCom, >>>>> following the same public process they use for other committees that they >>>>> appoint. Appointment by the Select Board will therefore create a clear >>>>> link between residents and FinCom. >>>>> Although many Massachusetts towns continue the tradition of a >>>>> moderator-appointed finance committee, the trend is toward other methods >>>>> of >>>>> appointment. A substantial minority of towns now rely on appointment by >>>>> Select Boards, direct election by residents, or appointment by a committee >>>>> composed of various town officials. >>>>> By considering this amendment, the Town has an opportunity to >>>>> strengthen transparency, accountability, and resident engagement in a >>>>> vital >>>>> part of our local government. Embracing best practices that encourage >>>>> diverse perspectives and open public participation will not only enhance >>>>> the Finance Committee’s effectiveness but also foster greater trust and >>>>> collaboration within our community. Together, we can ensure that >>>>> Lincoln’s >>>>> financial decisions reflect the voices and values of all its residents, >>>>> building a stronger, more inclusive future for our Town. >>>>> Bob Domnitz, on behalf of the Petitioners >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
-- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
