I genuinely appreciate your earnestness, and you make a great point for why anti-Zionism is inherently antisemitic: Criticism of Israel's actions *is* different from criticizing Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, which is typically leveled at it only because it is Jewish, as in these movies.
*A nation is not required to be perfect in order to be legitimate* (see: USA, Canada, England, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, not to mention China, Syria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc). This is what is so dangerous about these movies and speakers. They criticize not only Israel's actions (in a highly biased and inaccurate way), but also claim that the Jewish people therefore do not deserve equal rights to political power or self-determination the way that other people do. By creating a "Jews bad, Arabs good" narrative, not only do the movies falsely demonize the Jewish people, they rob everyone of the opportunity to take a broader perspective. I think this is the healthiest back-and-forth we've had on this topic so far. Thanks, Rachel. ᐧ On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 2:18 PM Rachel Marie Schachter < rachelmarieschach...@gmail.com> wrote: > I know you’re not calling for censorship. I do think that some other > responses on LincolnTalk were saying this series shouldn’t be allowed to > take place. > > To answer you directly — I believe, and work daily to live into the > belief, that any speech or actions against Jewish people based on being > Jewish is absolutely wrong, which isn’t anywhere near a strong enough word. > I don’t know you and you don’t know me, so I can’t convince you of that > over email, and I’m not trying to. > > When people trying to criticize Israel, a political power, conflate that > criticism with demonization of all Jewish people, it delegitimizes any > argument being made. Period. There are people advocating for the people of > Palestine who are working hard to not do that, and to actively combat it. I > was trying to agree as someone who believes in a free Palestine that > antisemitism isn’t somehow suddenly fine, and you’re right, a lot of the > loudest voices are acting like it is. And I wanted to remind people that no > one person is the voice of a movement or viewpoint. > > Thanks for taking me at face value and having a genuine conversation. > That’s all I’m trying to do. > > Rachel > > > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 9:15 AM Jonathan Sheffi <jshe...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Nobody is calling for censorship. However, these movies (with which I >> happen to be familiar >> <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CRxaqkMJySZHSrNlWQjEey_U/https%3A%2F%2Fpairlist9.pair.net%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Flincoln%2F2024-December%2F067572.html>) >> each promote the delegitimization of equal rights for the Jewish people in >> different ways, whether opposing their right to free speech, to >> political power, or to self-determination. And so they are being called out >> for promoting hatred against a minority group. >> >> You say that calling out antisemitism in any movement is important, and I >> agree with you, but you haven't yet said what that means to you. Which >> beliefs, speech, or actions against the Jewish people do you oppose, and >> which beliefs, speech, or actions against the Jewish people do you not >> oppose? >> ᐧ >> >> On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 7:07 PM Rachel Marie Schachter < >> rachelmarieschach...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I apologize if this falls in the category of something that shouldn't be >>> continued on LincolnTalk, but I don't want to respond to you privately, >>> Steve (Brown), and have you think that I'm saying something privately that >>> I wouldn't be willing to say publicly. I've also had this general idea >>> floating around my brain for a while, and since I don't know you >>> personally, I think it makes more sense to respond on LincolnTalk. >>> >>> I want to acknowledge your pain and trauma, your lived experience, and >>> the very true and real history and present rise in antisemitism in America, >>> including in our town and locally. I truly hope it doesn't make that seem >>> insincere to say I just want to remind people that Steve Low is just one >>> person, GRALTA is just one organization made up of more than one person who >>> I assume don't all share exactly the same viewpoints, and not everyone who >>> believes in a free Palestine (myself included, and I have for a long time) >>> approaches their advocacy with antisemitic rhetoric, by conflating Zionism >>> (which I don't believe has a simple cut-and-dry definition, but I'm also >>> just one person) with the state of Israel with Jewish people in general. >>> Steve Low obviously doesn't believe he's doing that, and I'm not here to >>> argue that one way or the other. There *is* a ton of antisemitic >>> rhetoric within factions of movements advocating for a free Palestine. It's >>> not every person or every organization, but it absolutely exists, and it >>> shouldn't, and it detracts from everyone's goals because it's deflective >>> and misguided. >>> >>> In my view, true liberation demands calling out antisemitism within >>> *any* movement, the same way it demands calling out *any* legitimately >>> harmful rhetoric. I don't believe in censoring the series (for >>> transparency, I haven't seen any of the films) because I don't believe in >>> censorship in general. I just hope it gives literally anyone comfort to be >>> reminded that no one person or group is the face of any movement or >>> outlook, and the loudest voices are very much not necessarily the voice of >>> a majority, let alone a consensus. >>> >>> Rachel >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 10:23 PM S Brown <sdbr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> As we ponder the implications of the question raised in the message >>>> below: *“Could this happen in Lincoln?”,* we might also consider once >>>> again how antisemitic rhetoric has become normalized in Lincoln. The >>>> implication is that a Zionist conspiracy is encroaching dangerously upon >>>> our town, seeking to control the media, the educational system, and the >>>> government. >>>> >>>> For those who don’t see how disturbingly insensitive, offensive, >>>> inflammatory and utterly frightening this sort of rhetoric is to so many >>>> Jews in this town, I weep. >>>> >>>> For those like my family, who have long had our children under armed >>>> guard at their schools, camps, and places of worship, who have been so >>>> repeatedly traumatized by events over the course of the last 15 monhts, and >>>> who feel so deeply the pain of all those who have suffered in the war, I >>>> weep even more, as I see this town we love, once a sanctuary, succumb to a >>>> venomous rhetoric that is poisoning our community, and labels us as the >>>> enemy. >>>> >>>> Steve Brown >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>> *From: *"Stephen R. Low" <steve....@gordianconcepts.com> >>>> *Subject: **[LincolnTalk] Reminder: GRALTA's Israel-Palestine Film >>>> Series continues on Thursday (Jan 16) and Sunday (Jan 19)* >>>> *Date: *January 15, 2025 at 7:03:36 PM EST >>>> *To: *"Lincoln Talk" <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> >>>> *Reply-To: *steve....@gordianconcepts.com >>>> >>>> *The GRALTA Foundation screens the second film in our winter film >>>> series* >>>> *The Lobby-USA (Part 1)**, a 2017 documentary produced by Al Jazeera >>>> Investigations.* >>>> >>>> *“A superb undercover investigation”* >>>> *~** Middle East Monitor **~* >>>> >>>> *Two screenings in Lincoln, MA—a weekday evening and a Sunday >>>> afternoon.* >>>> >>>> - *Thursday, January 16 at 7 PM at Bemis Hall, 15 Bedford Road* >>>> - *Sunday, January 19 at 2 PM at the Lincoln Public Library, 3 >>>> Bedford Road* >>>> >>>> >>>> [image: image004.png] >>>> <https://zoa.org/2018/04/10377872-zoa-mort-klein-convinced-qatar-to-cancel-anti-semitic-al-jazeera-jewish-lobby-series/> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Steve Low >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >>
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