--- On Fri, 9/18/09, Trevor Daniels <t.dani...@treda.co.uk> wrote:
> From: Trevor Daniels <t.dani...@treda.co.uk> > Subject: Re: outside-staff-priority with slur and hairpin > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancs...@yahoo.com>, lilypond-user@gnu.org > Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 10:22 AM > > Jonathan Wilkes wrote Friday, September 18, 2009 6:51 AM > > > --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Trevor Daniels <t.dani...@treda.co.uk> > wrote: > >> > >> Have you not read the Learning Manual? The > >> Notation Reference assumes you have. This is > >> explained in considerable detail in section > 4.4.3. > > > > Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I wanted to know why > I can't just set > > Hairpin to #1 and the Slur to #2 for > 'outside-staff-priority. And I > > forgot to search the LM before posting. > > > > Yes, I've read (but not memorized) the LM, and I see > that overriding the 'outside-staff-priority for > DynamicLineSpanner works > while using > > the same override for Hairpin does not. Yet > nothing in the section you > > refer to states that DynamicLineSpanner is the *only* > way to change > > 'outside-staff-priority for a dynamic. > > You make a valid point here. One one hand it should > be obvious that > you have to change the property in the correct object, but > OTOH it is > not obvious what the correct object is when spanners are > involved. > This is mentioned in the LM, but at some distance from the > section on > grobs and interfaces. At the end of 4.5.1 there's a > table of object > names that need to be tweaked to move various objects, > including > dynamics. I'll add a forward reference to that. > > Perhaps there should also be a gentle introduction to > spanners in the LM. > These are discussed in the Notation Reference (section > 5.4.6), but that > is a little fierce for starters. I'll think about > that. > > > There's a paragraph in LM 4.3.1 that says [regarding > properties of > > objects]: > > > > "Before we tackle this, let us remember that object > properties are grouped in what are called interfaces – see > Properties > > found in interfaces. This is simply to group together > those properties that may be used together to tweak a > graphical object > – if one of them is allowed > for an object, so are the others. Some objects then use the > properties in some interfaces, others > use them from > other interfaces. The interfaces which contain the > properties used by a particular grob are listed in the IR > at > > the bottom of the page describing that grob, and those > properties may be viewed by looking at those interfaces." > > > > So when it says properties are "allowed" for an > object, what exactly does > > that mean? Also, what does it mean to say "the > properties used by a > > particular grob?" > > > > I'm not a programmer, so some of this is a little > difficult to grasp, but > > by the logic of that paragraph what I'm getting is > that > > 'outside-staff-priority is a property that is allowed > for Hairpin objects > > (because I know 'transparent works on Hairpins and is > part of the grob > > interface), is used by Hairpin objects (because > grob-interface is listed > > at the bottom of the IR for Hairpin), but still cannot > be used to > > make the Hairpin go below the Slur in my example. > > This is not easily explained. An object has -access- > to all the properties > listed in the interfaces it supports, but it does not > necessarily honor them. > > The difficulty is that there is no general rule that can be > used to discover > which properties have an effect on a particular grob and > which do not. > In this case one has to know that hairpins are spanners > (because they > start and end at different musical moments), and spanners > are positioned > by the appropriate spanner object. I think this is the most difficult part of using Lilypond that I've come up against. Currently I'm using the IR as a kind of "quick reference" manual- if I need to tweak something like how long a hairpin should be, I just go to Hairpin and find what seems like the right property. But as your explanation (and others on this list) point to, there's a lot more to take into consideration to get the right property (e.g., 'font-size vs. 'zigzag-width for the width of the trill continuation glyph). -Jonathan > > Thanks for your comments - they are what I need to help me > to understand > how the LM might be improved. > > Trevor > > _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
