Hi Andrew,
What is the use case for this?
It was the opening night of my musical, “Robin Hood: The Legendary Musical
Comedy”. The curtain was at 8PM. At 7:30PM, I realized I had not arranged and
printed out the piccolo part for the overture, as I had promised the player. So
I went into the theatre office, borrowed their computer, logged on to lilybin,
and generated a piccolo part which I handed to the player just a few minutes
before the downbeat.
I was very grateful for lilybin at that moment — there was no way to install
lilypond on any machine in the building at that moment — and I'm sure in a
similar situation, I might be grateful for a web-accessible version of
Frescobaldi.
For the record, I do not have a laptop. Also, it looks like
lilybin.com is down (hacklily.org is still working, though) so it
looks like a web version of Frescobaldi would fill a niche.
--
Knute Snortum
Dear Andrew and All,
I hope that you are all well. I have never responded to a thread like
this before, so I'm still getting the hang of the etiquette.
Nonetheless, I feel that I may have a useful insight for this.
I am a full-time working composer, and currently also a doctoral student
at a well-known U.S. musical institution which I cannot speak for. What
I can speak for however is the sense of a large current sea-change
occuring within the below-30 agegroup as a result of the ever-more
ubiquitous nature of the internet and the invisible restraints that some
notation softwares have placed quietly on their users. I have witnessed
this in all three composition departments I have been a part of - two in
the U.K., and one here in the U.S..
It appears to me that the spell of cloud computing and subscription
softwares is beginning to break. Recently, I walked past a student
political protest in which individuals on both sides of the disagreement
had tee-shirts that were against these ideas (one of particular interest
being a tee-shirt with a onedrive logo imitating a pokeball vacuuming up
lots of people beneath it with the tagline 'gotta catch them all!').
My own experience reflects this - I was a Sibelius user at large from
age 16, but after amassing 60 scores, was told that my perpetual license
was not in fact perpetual. I was left holding an enormous number of
files I couldn't open, and a high upgrade fee. Being given this news was
actually rather devastating, and I have been subsisting on a hodge-podge
of .pdf files ever since (this coincided in my case with the Apple
general refusal of 32-bit software, so within the space of three months
I couldn't even open the program!). Luckily - I have always written my
music by hand, and created parts by hand too, so I didn't lose anything.
And this is how I eventually came to Lilypond and Frescobaldi.
The thing is, this same thing is happening with increasing regularity to
many composers in my agegroup, who cannot afford the high fees once
leaving University. Whilst some will move to MuseScore, there are an
ever-increasing group who are looking for an Engraving software _as
opposed to_ a Composing software - step forward Lilypond and
Frescobaldi! It is for this reason that I know of 2 university faculty,
and 20 composers/late stage composition students under the age of 30 who
have switched their workflow to Frescobaldi/Lilypond in the last 6
months and I know 12 more who are seriously considering it. This number
is ever increasing.
The issue (and major sticking point) is that, for most of these
individuals this is their first experience with computer coding. The
reason that it has suddenly become worth learning is the very fact that
it remains offline, and goes where their computer/laptop/memory stick
goes (and never goes out of date!). It is also capable of significantly
more complex engraving feats than any GUI-based software, mostly
eliminating the endless hours dragging notes backward and forward by
individual pixels to get it to publication standard (because the
formatting commands always introduce annoying collisions somewhere!). It
also prints and combines scores to this standard faster than any other
engraving software, even for an amateur, and it publishes directly to
.pdf - so all you need to carry around is a memory stick with the parts
on! It was also my first experience with any form of coding, and the
learning curve has been steep, but I can honestly say it has been worth
it, and it was easier to reach enough proficiency to create a
good-looking score than Sibelius was.
A browser-based Frescobaldi may be a useful feature, but it isn't as
useful as preperation and a memory stick to those who don't know coding
and want to stay offline. Opening a .pdf on a foreign computer has
always worked even if that same computer can't load the microsoft
outlook website (or is offline)! As Wol implied, the internet tends to
favour the young and physically able on these issues (I use a screen
reader/magnifier). Running and understanding something on a local
computer is a simpler process to understand than running something on a
computer from afar if, like me, you don't actually know how that
mechanism works! Also, as someone who has travelled lots - the freedom
to work offline is freedom indeed (especially when you can't log in to
any of the WiFi!).
In short, a browser-based Frescobaldi sounds good, but a cloud solution
in which you access your files from a central server seems to me to be
running a little counter to the current direction of culture.
For what it it may be worth - I feel like the edge that Frescobaldi
could really sharpen is making the coding learning-curve easier for
non-coding composers to digest, without bluntening the extraordinary
power of Lilypond. If we could make the adoption of the coding as easy
to learn as the adoption of a new UI, then I suspect that non-coding
musician users would begin to come in droves.
Incidentally; I'm thinking of doing a video and written series of my
learning curve and compositional process espousing the benefits of
switching on my website/youtube channel, alongside hand engraving -
carrying on where 'sound from sound' left off perhaps - would this be of
interest?
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, and I look forward
to hearing your responses,
Yours faithfully,
--Tristan
________________________________
www.tristanlatchford.com
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Prototype Frescobaldi in the browser (Knute Snortum)
2. Re: Glissando stems (Thomas Morley)
3. pitched trill fingerings (Jim Cline)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 07:35:31 -0700
From: Knute Snortum<ksnor...@gmail.com>
To: Kieren MacMillan<kie...@kierenmacmillan.info>
Cc: Andrew Bernard<andrew.bern...@mailbox.org>, Lilypond-User
Mailing List<lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Prototype Frescobaldi in the browser
Message-ID:
<calmejxqvphoqgdxsvzfrepoy9bb_3p-w--7_ye3wc9xof2y...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 4:33 AM Kieren MacMillan
<kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
Hi Andrew,
What is the use case for this?
It was the opening night of my musical, “Robin Hood: The Legendary Musical
Comedy”. The curtain was at 8PM. At 7:30PM, I realized I had not arranged and
printed out the piccolo part for the overture, as I had promised the player. So
I went into the theatre office, borrowed their computer, logged on to lilybin,
and generated a piccolo part which I handed to the player just a few minutes
before the downbeat.
I was very grateful for lilybin at that moment — there was no way to install
lilypond on any machine in the building at that moment — and I'm sure in a
similar situation, I might be grateful for a web-accessible version of
Frescobaldi.
For the record, I do not have a laptop. Also, it looks like
lilybin.com is down (hacklily.org is still working, though) so it
looks like a web version of Frescobaldi would fill a niche.
--
Knute Snortum
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 17:19:27 +0200
From: Thomas Morley<thomasmorle...@gmail.com>
To: Mark Knoop<m...@opus11.net>
Cc: Lilypond User List<lilypond-user@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Glissando stems
Message-ID:
<cabsfgyuxfrdzkhgwigt1wv5rxj1snvcwa21gs_qsqnweh-p...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Am Mo., 8. Aug. 2022 um 16:35 Uhr schrieb Mark Knoop<m...@opus11.net>:
Following on from this old thread...
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2019-10/msg00405.html
... I'm using Harm's fantastic code to align/attach Stems to a Glissando line.
However, I've come across a problem with the code which in relation to
MultiMeasureRests. Namely, writing a MMR which will appear on the same system
as the Glissando (or some other situations) results in an error:
ERROR: In procedure ly:item-get-column: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting
Item): #<Grob Spanner >
Attached is Harm's original code with a few lines added to the example (at line
595) which demonstrate the problem.
Many thanks,
Mark
--
Mark Knoop
Hi Mark,
`ly:item-get-column' used in bultin `grob::when' sometimes causes the
problem, if blindly thrown at all system's elts, as I do in said
coding.
It's fixable by prefiltering for NoteColumns, i.e. line 102ff should read:
;; Filter for every inner (skipped) NoteColumn
(inner-ncs
(filter
(lambda (elt)
(let (;; Going for `ly:grob-relative-coordinate´
disturbs
;; vertical spacing, thus we sort/filter using
;; `grob::when´
(elt-when (grob::when elt)))
(and
(ly:grob-property elt 'glissando-skip #f)
(ly:moment<? left-bound-when elt-when)
(not (moment<=? right-bound-when elt-when)))))
(filter
(lambda (elt)
(grob::has-interface elt 'note-column-interface))
(ly:grob-array->list sys-elts-array))))
That said, meanwhile I don't like the whole approach anymore...
The need to recreate things LilyPond already has done is an alarm
sign. Maybe there are other still uncovered bugs.
Alas, I don't have a working alternative :(
HTH a bit,
Harm
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:54:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Cline<jcl...@physics.mcgill.ca>
To:lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: pitched trill fingerings
Message-ID:<alpine.deb.2.20.2208081151360.51...@laxmi.home>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
Hello, I would like to indicate fingerings for a pitched trill, and also
be able to control where they appear. The
\set fingeringOrientations = #'(left) is ignored in the trill context, and
the fingering is ignored for the secondary note of the trill. Any ideas?
regards, Jim
\version "2.20.0"
\relative c'' {
\clef bass
\set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
\pitchedTrill
a,1*7/8-1\startTrillSpan bes-2 s8 \stopTrillSpan
}
------------------------------
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