In message <twig.1238873331.40...@suffolk.lib.ny.us>,
dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009, "Anthony W. Youngman"
<lilyp...@thewolery.demon.co.uk> said:
Okay, I think I can modify this to a definitive version now ...
sorry for my tactless reply earlier, I should have checked the present
text rather than assume you were quoting it.
1.64 concert pitch
The pitch at which the piano and other non-transposing instruments
play
the concept of transposing instruments is irrelevant to this entry and
should be left in its entirety to 1.311
So do we leave the reader with the impression that all instruments are
written at concert pitch? Or do we point out that it only applies to
certain instruments (even if we don't explicitly list them). I think the
latter makes more sense.
I think it is both sufficient and correct to state
A convention for tuning the instruments of the orchestra.
Except it's incorrect. It's the convention for tuning, in particular,
the STRING instruments of the orchestra. It doesn't apply to the wind
instruments. And it applies to a lot of non-orchestral instruments
(personally, I don't consider the piano to be "an instrument of the
orchestra" although other people may disagree with me).
Officially, it is defined
by whom? wiki?
Actually, it's defined by the International Standards Organisation
apparently. ISO 16.
I suspect there is a cartel of instrument makers who have
established the standard for what they will manufacture, but they have no
say over how their products will be [ab]used. Each orchestra has an
understanding with its players, their union(s), and guest performers. For
some it is A=440, others 443,444,445... Some Early music ensembles
perform at other reference pitches for a variety of reasons we needed
elaborate on (A=395, 415, 435, 460..) but should mention.
Which is why I said there were other conventions, that had mostly fallen
into disuse. The implication being that there WERE some other
conventions in current use.
as "A = 440", meaning that the note A
in the treble clef indicates a sound
that has a frequency of 440Hz.
have we established a standard for pitch notation? A4 is what we are
discussing here.
No. ISO apparently have, though.
There are other standard frequencies,
but they have mostly fallen into disuse.
HAH!! tell that to the academy of ancient music. Clients of our software
are playing in some of those ensembles!
Instruments with a single sounding part (woodwind, brass) follow a
different convention
just one?
Yes, for brass at least, just one. The ONLY exception I'm aware of for
brass instruments is actually my own instrument, the trombone, which
*sometimes* follows the concert pitch convention instead.
I might be talking out of turn for wind instruments, I'm hoping a
woodwind player can expand there, but I'm sure woodwind notation follows
fundamentally the same principles as brass notation.
Or we can
simply point people at the Wikipedia entry for "concert pitch",
wiki is a moving target of varying quality, this topic is not evolving so
fast that we cant maintain, and we should be self-contained.
1.311 transposing instrument
Instruments whose notated pitch is different from concert pitch.
mmm, better might be to begin with the reason for the convention.
-=-=-=-=
Many of the instruments of the orchestra are available in different
sizes, each with a differrent fundamental pitch; we speak of them
collectivly as a family, and the fundamental pitch is nominative, eg, a
Trumpet in Bb, a Horn in F, a C Clarinet. An experienced player with
skill on one size of instrument can often play the others with similar
skill, but is challenged to read for each of several instruments.
One solution is the convention of transposed parts. One instrument of
each family is taken as reference, all music for it is written at the
sounding pitch. Music for other members of its family is written at a
transposed pitch, so that when played as if it was the reference
instrument, the notes produced will be as the composer intended, and the
musician needs no change in reading skills. As an example, C Clarinets
use music written at pitch. Music for a Bb Clarinet is written transposed
up by a second so that the note read (and fingered) as 'C' will actually
play as the 'Bb' the composer wanted.
-=-=-=
I had thought about that. I left it out because I thought a player would
know it and a composer or publisher didn't need to know it. If I put it
in I'd rather just add to what I've written a sentence like "A
deliberate side effect is that any given written note has the same
fingering across all instruments in that family".
been a while since I read a list of which instruments employ transposed
parts, maybe just simply list em and leave it at that.
Can you provide a list? "brass and woodwind"? Or "clarinets, trumpets,
oboes, sousaphones, ..."? Or "Bb, C and D trumpets, A and C clarinets,
A, Bb, and Eb cornets, ..."?
There's just no way to provide a definitive list. And what do you do
about the trombone, which for one member of the family NEVER
(officially) transposes, for another member probably always transposes,
and for the most common member does whichever is most convenient at the
time :-)
the note whose wavelength is equal to the length
the mathematical design of instruments is way beyond scope. The stuff of
multiple doctoral dissertations when done up properly. End corections and
all that. those who doubt me can go look up some of the literature -
Benades several tomes of course, but also Cornelius J Nederveen,
_Accoustical Aspects of Woodwind Instruments_ rev ed ISBN-13:
9780875805771.
I said nothing about the design of instruments ... I've simply made the
observation that, for ANY brass instrument, the note which has a
wavelength equivalent to the length of the instrument is notated as
middle C. If I'm trying to be accurate, then I can't see any easier way
of definitively explaining how to map the notes the instrument plays to
the notes written on the music. How would YOU explain which played note
matched which written note, in a manner that applied to any brass
instrument chosen at random? I could say "the higher of the two adjacent
harmonics an octave apart is notated as middle C" but that doesn't sound
clean and simple to me.
Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk
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