> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:leedslist- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sniffer-Dog > Sent: 16 August 2007 05:35 > To: Leeds List > Subject: Re: [LU] Leedslist Digest, Vol 11, Issue 110 > > You've got to say, he has got a bloody good point. Imagine if this had > happened to the small business you ran or one you worked for. If you > ended > up getting your P-45 I don't think a lot of people here would be > praising > Ken Bates' shady dealings quite so much.
Agreed, but then again unpaid debts of circa £2k shouldn't mean someone losing a job over it, so it is a little bit dramatic to suggest such a thing. > > It does seem like one rule for football teams and another rule for all > other > types of businesses. Agreed, but whose choice is that? Bates? > > Ripping people off is not the right way to go about things, and going > into > administration if you're a football club or declaring bankruptcy > personally > or as a business is also not the correct thing to do. These should only > ever > be as a very last resort when all other avenues have been exhausted and > there really is no alternative. Again agreed, but firstly noone here knows exactly what the financial situation was facing the club over this summer. The FACT is that Bates asked HMRC for a payment holiday. What seems to be disputed is that he didnt NEED to ask for that, that it wasn't a very last resort and all other avenues hadnt been exhausted. Betty throws up Bates quotes saying how the debt was being managed etc. What is curious it is assumed he was telling the whole truth then - that the debts were almost gone, but has lied since. Why not that he was lying about the level of debt back then? What would he have to gain by suggesting publicly that the debts were well under control? Inward investment maybe? Sponsorship? I dont know myself, just throwing that out as a possibility. Maybe he was talking about managed debt, not the total debt? Maybe there were some creditors quite happy to be owed money but started to get a bit jittery at the prospect of relegation? Maybe there was promise of funds to come in over the summer but those funds from an existing creditor were put on hold due to impending relegation? Again, I don't know, but it seems like a possibility to me. What I think pisses some people off on the list is that they expected Kenneth himself to put his hands in his pocket and bail the club out personally. These are the people who are pissed off with Kenneth because, apparently, he bought the club with our money and he hasnt put any money in himself. Maybe they think there was a bit of a financial crisis looming, but that the spat with HMRC was avoidable and again Ken himself could have paid the £200k per month in the short term? Ultimately though the club (and thats not just Kenneth, I expect the close investors/creditors were also consulted) decided it couldnt pay and when HMRC turned down the request of a payment holiday (and we all know why they did that, it wasnt the £200k per month) that meant HMRC issued a winding up order. I personally think at that stage Bates thought, "well fuck you then, we will go into admin and you wont get all your money - you lot have cost the taxpayer millions for the sake of a battle with the FL", but I could be doing the old man a disservice. > These small businesses that have been ripped off by LU didn't deserve > that, > and we as supporters also don't deserve to still be stuck with Bates > and > Wise. Bates would not have taken the club into administration unless the HMRC had filed a winding up order on the club. Even if Bates was hoping that would happen, HMRC, for the sake of £200k per month over a few months, decided to not only write off a large percentage of the taxpayer's debt, they also wrote off a large percentage of all the other creditors debt. You can all argue til you are blue in the face that Bates wanted them to do it, but the FACT is HMRC did issue a winding up order, and the FACT is the legal recourse to that is to go into administration. No business has been ripped off by LU or anyone else, they were simply sold down the river by HMRC in their political pursuit of football. I personally think that is ethically wrong - they are perhaps entitled to write off their own debts as they see fit (at least there is some kind of public accountability, albeit via the government), but they had no right doing so for the other creditors. Let us not forget here, at one point Bates offered the creditors the exact money they would have got if football was in line with everyone else. HMRC turned that offer down and cost the other creditors even more money. > > Bates doesn't give two hoots about Leeds United, he only cares about > making > a quick buck. I for one am very suspicious about how a team that got > the the > playoff final the season previous could then find itself so low down > the > league and relegated the next season, unless it had been planned. Oh.. my.. god.. > > We had a squad of players capable of finishing in the top three > positions in > the league last season. The way I see it is Bates has planned all this > meticulously with his sidekick Wise as manager. The plan was to get > Leeds > relegated so the value of the club goes down even further, go into and > out > of administration clearing the debts and buying the club back for a > rock > bottom price. Dont forget employing Blackwell, knowing he would initially do us quite well and then lose it through his inability to stand up to seasoned pros. And dont forget rigging the Ipswich game to allow them a last minute equaliser, and also bribing Creswell to miss a sitter in the same game.. > > Anyone who thinks Bates is an honest broker smelling of white roses is > living in cloud cuckoo land. He's a deceitful crook and the sooner we > lose > both him and Wise the better. Stop the press - we are stuck with them for the foreseeable, deal with it. _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist Join The Leeds United Supporters Trust at www.lufctrust.org
